Dealing with dealers
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  1. #1
    Junior Member chisleu's Avatar
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    The MSRP on a new 2012 TW200 is $4490. It seems like this is just a random number put out so that salesmen can undercut it and start off talking about $4250, and then start tacking on more and more fees until the bike is well over the $5200 mark. The first place I called started at 3500 or something and was at 4500 by the time he finished adding on crap, not counting tags. The second place would have to order it and he started off at 4250 and ended up at $5200.



    What can I expect to pay for one of these suckers "out the door"? I feel like I should be a lot closer to the $4,250-$4500 range (at the second place, which is a local dealership. The first one is 150 miles away.

  2. #2
    Senior Member lizrdbrth's Avatar
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    I see no compelling reason to buy new if you're planning a conversion down the road.



    Not much has been changed on these bikes since '87, and ultimately you'll be using very little of the original hardware.



    If you want a nice, reliable toy far into the future and don't plan a conversion, new would be the way to go. Otherwise you might consider a good clean '01-up unit for less than half the cost. Same bike, same eqipment.



    Just my .02. You'll be ditching $3500 worth in hard parts for 10 cents on the dollar after the conversion if you go new



    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

    Powdercoated '87 frame, extended swingarm, YZ fork legs, ATV tire, 14/55, XT350 tank, spliced quick-release seat, disc brake conversion, beeg headlight, beeger rack, Lizrdcooler, Lizrdventz and bunch of other stuff all covered in invisible ink.

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  3. #3
    Junior Member chisleu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizrdbrth View Post
    I see no compelling reason to buy new if you're planning a conversion down the road.



    Not much has been changed on these bikes since '87, and ultimately you'll be using very little of the original hardware.



    If you want a nice, reliable toy far into the future and don't plan a conversion, new would be the way to go. Otherwise you might consider a good clean '01-up unit for less than half the cost. Same bike, same eqipment.



    Just my .02. You'll be ditching $3500 worth in hard parts for 10 cents on the dollar after the conversion if you go new


    That is absolutely part of the plan. I've been hunting but they aren't very popular down here. At least, not many being sold used. I do plan to ride it for a year, and I do like the idea of having a new bike over a used bike simply because I'll know exactly what has happened to it.



    Also I won't be "ditching" anything. I'll be keeping the engine/transmission/etc for some future project.

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  5. #4
    Senior Member phazer's Avatar
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    hey chisleu, where do you live? i bought my new TW in plainfield ,ct. a place called motorsports nation. $4265 out the door with a four year extended warranty, helmet and two pairs of gloves.

  6. #5
    Senior Member lizrdbrth's Avatar
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    A'ight, then. Look forward to watching your conversion take shape.



    What's the rough cost of the hub motor/batteries/controller you're currently considering?



    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

    Powdercoated '87 frame, extended swingarm, YZ fork legs, ATV tire, 14/55, XT350 tank, spliced quick-release seat, disc brake conversion, beeg headlight, beeger rack, Lizrdcooler, Lizrdventz and bunch of other stuff all covered in invisible ink.

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  7. #6
    Senior Member PalmStateCrawler's Avatar
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    This may help a little. My info's on there too.



    https://tw200forum.com/index.php?/top...926#entry27926
    '13 690 Enduro R too many frickin farkles...
    '07 KLX250 farkled (wife's bike)
    '86 BW80 farkled to size
    '10 TW200 you will be missed

  8. #7
    Junior Member chisleu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizrdbrth View Post
    A'ight, then. Look forward to watching your conversion take shape.



    What's the rough cost of the hub motor/batteries/controller you're currently considering?


    Mars motor: http://www.evdrives.com/mars_motor_me1003.html



    Hub motor: http://www.enertrac.net/product.php (the $1300 includes a lot of stuff)



    Controller about $500-700



    Batteries (holy crap) $2000-3500 depending. This is the critical part. Good batteries (and enough of them) will last a long long time (5+ years) and provide fantastic range (spelled out my high ambitions already.) Lifepo4 72-106vdc 100-150AH is the plan. It's a huge huge investment, but after 5 years of paying around $.005 per mile in electricity vs $.19 in gasoline, it can pay off. The range is the only real limit you put on yourself, and by using more batteries (higher capacity) you lower the draw to each cell, which makes them last much longer. Drawing 5c instead of 7.5c is huge for most cells.



    Say I run 5000 miles a year (rather ambitious for sure...) with $4/gal gas and 75mpg. I'll be about $266 in gas. At .005c per mile it will be about $25. With a 4000-5000 cycle lifespan and 100 mile range, I'll only be charging once a week, about 50 times a year. The batteries would last many years, maybe decades.



    No one really knows because no one has had to replace batteries yet! (outside of abuse)



    Even if you only get 1000 cycles, you are looking at 20 years. That's $5320 in gas vs $3k in batteries and $500 in electricity.



    These are very conservative numbers if I'm doing everything right. Sorry, I've just been trusting the numbers I've seen around and decided to do a set myself to see. Most of them are comparing the 40-50 you get from large bikes instead of the 75ish I think people are getting from this bike.

  9. #8
    Junior Member chisleu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JdubSC View Post
    This may help a little. My info's on there too.



    https://tw200forum.com/index.php?/top...926#entry27926


    Thanks a ton! I missed that thread. I now definately feel I should be in the $4000-$4250 range for a 2012, given new ones are coming soonish.

  10. #9
    Senior Member sorethumb's Avatar
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    I have been getting closer to 50mpg at near sustained 30 mile runs at 65mph. YMMV.



    Anyway, I second LB's suggestion for buying used. I think I may be able to find one near Charleston and one near Beaufort. Let me dig through my saved files...
    Custom 1998 TW200 Build Thread Hidden Content | 2003 TW200 | 2009 KLX351

  11. #10
    Junior Member chisleu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorethumb View Post
    I have been getting closer to 50mpg at near sustained 30 mile runs at 65mph. YMMV.



    Anyway, I second LB's suggestion for buying used. I think I may be able to find one near Charleston and one near Beaufort. Let me dig through my saved files...


    I agree. The only reason I was going new was the price doesn't seem to fall very much until you get to the ones with tons of miles.



    Also, I plan for this to be my kid's first form of transportation. Of course electric bikes will probably be the norm in 12 years, but that's what they said about those damned jetpacks!



    I've been hunting used bikes since I started looking for a bike! ebay, cycle trader, craigslist, etc.

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