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Need some advice for dealing with a crappy shop

6K views 64 replies 19 participants last post by  admiral 
#1 ·
Back in November, I acquired a used 2006 TW200 from a Craigslist ad. It quit running a few days after I got it home. After troubleshooting it with the help of the knowledge available on this forum, I decided that I was stumped and needed professional help with it. I contacted a local independent shop to have a look at it. A long story and almost $500.00 dollars later it was repaired. The cam sprocket, collar, timing chain, and cam had to be replaced. The original cam sprocket had cracks through it in several places. They also changed the oil in it and adjusted the valves. Earlier today while riding it I hear an intermittent screeching sound like a car belt might make. The bike then proceeds to shut down when I pull in the clutch. It refuses to crank anymore. I checked on the site here and have seen similar versions of this happen to other people. I pulled the oil filter that the shop installed and it does not have the openings! I am not having good luck getting into this hobby of riding motorcycles. I have doubts about the shop owning up to this. I do not know the extent of the damage or how much it will cost me to fix this at this point. I kind of wonder if the little bike is worth it. Have any of you been in a similar predicament? If so, how did you handle it? Either way, thanks for any input.
 
#2 ·
When did the shop finish their work? It seems like they would have little to argue about if it had only been a few weeks. Is there any record of how many miles were on the bike when they fixed it compared to now? Just searching for ways you can defend your point to the shop if needed.

Sorry for the bad luck. It seems like the filter distributer would need to pay for the repairs.
 
#3 ·
If your relationship with the repair shop is still amicable, and you explain the KNOWN AND DOCUMENTED filter issue, then they should help you.
I would go in with all the paperwork in order and explain that it isn't necessarily the shop's fault, and could they assist you in gaining a repair from the filter people.

If your relationship with the shop is not amicable and in good standing, then I would seek assistance from another shop, realizing that you would have to pay for the repairs and then seek repayment from the filter people or perhaps, the original repair shop.

If the noise did not happen too many times, or was not too loud, then I would replace the filter with the correct filter, make sure the oil is flowing, and carefully run it for a while to see if it is OK. The severity and frequency of the noise would be the basis of my decision. Don't know how many engines you've heard, so there might be a gamble there.

I wish you luck.
 
#5 ·
Good questions and a good reason to open the bleed bolt on the head after changing the filter or buying a used bike.

Sorry for your situation.

Auto part Vehicle Motor vehicle Engine Car
 
#6 ·
The repairs were completed the first week in January. I will gather my paperwork and give it a go on Monday. I will also get another filter and see if I can get the bike to fire up. As of now, it will not start. Does anyone know what it normally takes to repair one of these bikes after an issue like this? Thanks for the input.
 
#9 ·
The less parts changing and attempts to repair that you do, the better. The incorrect filter isn't causing it to not 'fire up'. The incorrect filter is causing a lack of lubrication to the top end. If it screeched and bound up, the damage is likely already done. A new oil filter isn't going to change anything. It's possible that it didn't 'destroy' anything too. It may have just got hot enough that it seized up and after cooling, it will restart.
Doubtful, but I had a Honda 125m that spent close to a year in jam jars while I saved enough money to buy a new case half. Being a kid, nobody ever told me to use a lint-free cloth, so the first run out, I was wailing along a dirt road 'right to the slats' and the oil screen was plugged with lint and it bound up solid...couldn't even pull the starter cord. I sat there a while and it cooled down and I restarted it and drove it home, cleaned the screen, and it lived a full and happy life.
So....you MIGHT be able to restart it, put the right filter in it and drive it for years. But, on the slim chance that it does fire up and run fine, it will have taken a lot of life out of it, so you'd have to decide if you're going to ride it as is, or try to get the dealership to come good. If you're going after the dealer, leave everything alone.
 
#7 ·
Not sure what would cause the cam's timing sprocket to crack in many places nor necessitate subsequent replacement of timing chain, collar and camshaft...other than giving the shop an opportunity to sale some marked up parts and the labor required to install them. I know, that sounds cynical. But did they explain what it was that they think caused the bike to "quit running after a few days"? Sure a bunch of parts were replaced but something caused the initial quit running issue. Just a poor state of tune from previous owner's neglect that was serendipitously cured by the shop mechanic's efforts?
But the part damage is befuddling. Really severe cam bushing wear? Could that be something that permitted chain and sprocket to smack into head or otherwise get damaged? Normal wear for a 2006 TW?
 
#8 ·
Try removing spark plug, adding Marvil Mystery Oil (or any other oil, that was just a shameless plug for Marvil) and seeing if engine can be turned over by hand. No plug means no compression so you should really get some tactile feed back if you use a socket on either the cam timing gear sprocket's nut or the equivalent nut on the crankshaft. Both are accessible behind covers on left side of engine. Crankshaft nut is maybe easiest to get to if you have a big washer to put in the grove and unscrew the small ~50mm plastic cover. Otherwise the cam sprocket cover comes off quickly with a re-usable o-ring gasket.
If turning engine in nuetral, in the normal direction of travel, feels "free" then good news. A little screeching could be from dry valve follower, rocker, cam areas, etc. Then removing valve covers and squirting in some more oil might help replace oil lost during the bad oil filter episode. I would then try once again to hand turn over engine several revolution or more listening and feeling for ugliness. If all seems "clunk-free" then I would try using starter motor to spin things even more after first buttoning up all the open covers. This should circulate fresh oil while you listen for any anomalous noises, screeches, vibrations, grand map seizures, etc.
Finally I would then re-install the spark plug and try to fire the bike.

Note: This was just an attempt to evaluate and re-start the bike. Oil starvation due to incorrect oil filter can also lead to repeating the same parts list you've already been through.:( At least the shop would know what to be replaced again.
 
#10 ·
"couldn't even pull the starter cord" - that tends to date Fishhguy, doesn't it? I won't admit to how old I am.;)
Good observations r.e. long term reliability as well as the don't touch advice before you are done with a claim with the independant repair shop that installed the incorrect oil filter.
 
#17 ·
"couldn't even pull the starter cord" - that tends to date Fishhguy, doesn't it? I won't admit to how old I am.;)
But don't forget there's a GCFishguy and a Fishguy. I never even checked available forum names when I signed up, I've been using GCFishguy for so long.
But still, yeah.....I might be old.

Of all the hell I put that old 125m through, nothing could kill it...crashed it, rolled it, sunk it....until one winter we cut a pair of cross-country skis down to about 3' long, moved the bindings, made a t-handle on the end of an old rope and spent a day hauling my buddy up and down the lake. People were actually getting a kick out of watching us so we took him home for a quick change of clothes, then resumed with him in nothing but a pair of Bermuda shorts, wool socks and the ski boots. If digital cameras and social media existed back then, we'd likely still be a household name.... Sometime during that day the white metal post that holds the string loaded arm that fits into the shift...drum (?) that holds it in a gear broke off the case half. I took that thing to more than one machine shop and there was nothing anybody could to with it.

Anyway...it sounds like you have a full set of legs to stand on. Now they have the opportunity to make a lifetime customer out of you and everybody you can spread the word to. Or, they can choose to throw you under the bus for a the sake of a couple hundred bucks (their cost, assuming it's the same general parts and repair that cost you $500) and lose you as a customer and everybody you can tell your story to forever. Best of luck to you!

Bad luck like that happens when you're fixing people's stuff...it's the law of averages. How they choose to deal with it is another story completely. In my years in car dealerships we crashed cars into each other in the parking lot, backed them out of bays without pumping the brakes back up because someone distracted you at the wrong moment, written them off on test drives, set them on fire, and dropped them off hoists.
 
#11 ·
The invoice shows a charge for an oil filter as part of the work. I even mentioned the need to ensure that a proper oil filter is installed when he told me that he had changed the oil as part of the service. He told me that the replacement filter exceeded the original part. He replaced the oil filter because the original was torn or at least that is what I was told. I appreciate the information and advice.
 
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#20 ·
So what did the shop say???
 
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#21 ·
We are having words. They claim that the filter they installed is correct even though it does not have the slits or 4 holes. Furthermore the mechanic says " Who is to say that the oil pump didn't go out or that you didn't over rev the motor". I am livid. I wish that I could locate a TSB or something. I requested his part number and can't locate it online. He says it comes from a parts house that you have to be a dealer to order from. I can't seem to locate the parts house either.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Either they fix it or you go to a lawyer and file in small claims court. You also have YELP,facebook,instagram and whatever else there is on social media to let others know how this guy does business. I would not let him get away with it. Go to a dealer and find out how much it will cost and bill him in small claims court. It's well documented here on this site that several bikes have had the same problem, caused by wrong filters in the correct box.
Also at some point when you feel comfortable please name the shop. We can email them several threads here about the wrong filter issue.
 
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#22 ·
How much did the repairs cost total and how much will it cost to fix? Sounds like you need to print out every single thread on these filters and talk to a small claims lawyer with a packet of papers in hand. He should do a free to cheap consultation and if he thinks you have a case be willing to go after them for legal fees.
 
#24 · (Edited)
I am sorry but a small claims case won't do much and on top of that this will still be happening to other owners. Rokon84 and Still learning you have been directly affected by the wrong filter in the correct box. I think it is time for a class action lawsuit against Yamaha. You two are ones who could start a legal action. This problem needs to be addressed by the consumer product safety commission or who ever does automobile safety recalls. Someone could die from these engines locking up at speed. The shops and dealers are in the middle of this and affected just as much as owners. Fellow TW200 owners on the forum can support and bring to bear pressure on Yamaha and the parts suppliers of the oil filters to rectify this situation. If every TW200 forum member went to every Yamaha dealer near them and asked to buy some filters and then inspected all of their stock. Maybe we could get a rock solid example of this happening. I went and bought some spare oil filters just to check the stock at North County Yamaha here in San Diego. They had 11 filters and let me inspect them. However none were the wrong type. I asked if they had a service bulletin about this problem and if they had ever heard about it. The answer was no of course. I also asked the parts manager who I could contact in Yamaha about this but never got an answer. We can also email, call or write directly to Yamaha informing them that this is a real problem and they need to address this serious problem for us as concerned owners.

I think a sticky should be made for the techincal forum however I am not sure of the format for that maybe some have some ideas. Are there any attorney's with suggestions or people who have contacts with Yamaha out there?
 
#25 ·
Still learning maybe go back to the independent shop and tell them it wasn't their fault that the wrong oil filter was put into your bike. Tell them you are planning a class action suit against Yamaha and their parts suppliers who may have distributed these filters. Let them know they are a victim of this problem as much as you are. If you can get them to help you by just being truthful in contacting Yamaha your case would be more powerful and they and other shops and owners wouldn't be harmed by this problem.
 
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#26 ·
Still Learning ask the shop to go to their parts suppliers and and see if they can look for the problem oil filter or will give you their address. That supply house may have more bad filters because one bad one came from there.
 
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#27 ·
Yamaha Sport Contact Us

Yamaha Motor Corporation, USA
6555 Katella Avenue
Cypress, CA 90630

Sales, marketing and distribution of Motorcycles, ATVs, Snowmobiles and Race Kart Engines.

Customer Relations
(800) 962-7926





Yamaha Outdoors Contact Us

Yamaha Motor Corporation, USA
6555 Katella Avenue
Cypress, CA 90630

Sales, marketing and distribution of ATVs and Side x Sides.

Customer Relations
(800) 962-7926
 
#28 · (Edited)
#30 ·
The shop claims that the new filter looked like the one he pulled out. He says that the filter he installed was appropriate and works in numerous Yamaha 200cc applications. I cant find his exact part anywhere on line. It seems to pull up numerous different filters. He says it is part # of106. He says that it is a house brand from Mcdonalds Wholesale. I have requested the Wholesaler's contact information and the shop has not given it to me. I even told them that if they were given the wrong part for the application that I would be glad to assist in pursuing the supplier.I will spread the word locally for sure about these guys. If they will not resolve this, I will have to save up some money and try to find another motor or find another bike.
 
#31 ·
If they will not resolve this you need to go after them legally, should a lawyer say "yeah, their booboo". I understand Tweaker's position, but the fact of the matter is they still screwed up -- whether intentional or not. Part of the entire point of having a shop do the work is risk transference -- that's the other side of the "I don't know how to do this" or "I know but I'm too busy/lazy/scared/etc." coin. As an IT guy, I am paid to do two things -- fix the issue and receive the risk of having the user do it. If I am given a part for a machine, don't know it's wrong and will kill it, and despite my best "boy, golly Beave!" efforts, I fry their computer, it is still my fault because I am the receiving agent of the risk in the project. I could then go after my supplier, but whether or not I like it receiving the user's risk is part of my job.

I understand the idea of not burning a shop down financially because of something small, of not engaging in frivolous litigation. This is the ruination of your motorcycle by a shop whose sole purpose is to fix motorcycles. It's like saying, "well, it's not the doctor's fault the surgical tech didn't sterilize the equipment he supplied to the doc and your kid died of sepsis." The hell it isn't.
 
#32 ·
I agree, however I am unable to find anything outside of this forum to indicate that this will occur if the wrong filter is used. Additionally, if they show that this is indeed the correct filter from his vendor, the burden of proof is on me to prove that this part does not meet the specifications to allow oil to the top end. The shop wants to see the bike. They have stated that this could have been an oil pump going out, prior issue, and/or "over reving" the engine. I already know that they are unscrupulous.
 
#34 ·
Do not let them remove or replace the filter in question. It is your only evidence.
 
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#37 · (Edited)
Still learning the NHSTA will look at your complaint and will determine if that filter you have caused your problem. There is no need for other evidence. You have to file a complaint for them to look at it. The fact that there are other anecdotal accounts that support your complaint is important. Rokon 84 needs to file one also.
 
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