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Thread: Need some advice for dealing with a crappy shop

  1. #1
    Member still learning's Avatar
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    Need some advice for dealing with a crappy shop

    Back in November, I acquired a used 2006 TW200 from a Craigslist ad. It quit running a few days after I got it home. After troubleshooting it with the help of the knowledge available on this forum, I decided that I was stumped and needed professional help with it. I contacted a local independent shop to have a look at it. A long story and almost $500.00 dollars later it was repaired. The cam sprocket, collar, timing chain, and cam had to be replaced. The original cam sprocket had cracks through it in several places. They also changed the oil in it and adjusted the valves. Earlier today while riding it I hear an intermittent screeching sound like a car belt might make. The bike then proceeds to shut down when I pull in the clutch. It refuses to crank anymore. I checked on the site here and have seen similar versions of this happen to other people. I pulled the oil filter that the shop installed and it does not have the openings! I am not having good luck getting into this hobby of riding motorcycles. I have doubts about the shop owning up to this. I do not know the extent of the damage or how much it will cost me to fix this at this point. I kind of wonder if the little bike is worth it. Have any of you been in a similar predicament? If so, how did you handle it? Either way, thanks for any input.

  2. #2
    Senior Member mountain yawp's Avatar
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    When did the shop finish their work? It seems like they would have little to argue about if it had only been a few weeks. Is there any record of how many miles were on the bike when they fixed it compared to now? Just searching for ways you can defend your point to the shop if needed.

    Sorry for the bad luck. It seems like the filter distributer would need to pay for the repairs.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Smitty Blackstone's Avatar
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    If your relationship with the repair shop is still amicable, and you explain the KNOWN AND DOCUMENTED filter issue, then they should help you.
    I would go in with all the paperwork in order and explain that it isn't necessarily the shop's fault, and could they assist you in gaining a repair from the filter people.

    If your relationship with the shop is not amicable and in good standing, then I would seek assistance from another shop, realizing that you would have to pay for the repairs and then seek repayment from the filter people or perhaps, the original repair shop.

    If the noise did not happen too many times, or was not too loud, then I would replace the filter with the correct filter, make sure the oil is flowing, and carefully run it for a while to see if it is OK. The severity and frequency of the noise would be the basis of my decision. Don't know how many engines you've heard, so there might be a gamble there.

    I wish you luck.

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  5. #4
    Senior Member TW-Brian's Avatar
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    Did the shop change the filter when they changed the oil, or could the bad filter have been the cause of both your original and subsequent problems?

  6. #5
    Senior Member SportsterDoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW-Brian View Post
    Did the shop change the filter when they changed the oil, or could the bad filter have been the cause of both your original and subsequent problems?
    Good questions and a good reason to open the bleed bolt on the head after changing the filter or buying a used bike.

    Sorry for your situation.

    head oil bleed bolt.jpg

  7. #6
    Member still learning's Avatar
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    The repairs were completed the first week in January. I will gather my paperwork and give it a go on Monday. I will also get another filter and see if I can get the bike to fire up. As of now, it will not start. Does anyone know what it normally takes to repair one of these bikes after an issue like this? Thanks for the input.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    Not sure what would cause the cam's timing sprocket to crack in many places nor necessitate subsequent replacement of timing chain, collar and camshaft...other than giving the shop an opportunity to sale some marked up parts and the labor required to install them. I know, that sounds cynical. But did they explain what it was that they think caused the bike to "quit running after a few days"? Sure a bunch of parts were replaced but something caused the initial quit running issue. Just a poor state of tune from previous owner's neglect that was serendipitously cured by the shop mechanic's efforts?
    But the part damage is befuddling. Really severe cam bushing wear? Could that be something that permitted chain and sprocket to smack into head or otherwise get damaged? Normal wear for a 2006 TW?
    2003 TW200 "Betty Boop"
    2006 TW200 "Nibbler", a.k.a. “Mr.Gizmo"
    Hidden Content All Things Considered I’ld Rather Be Motorcycling

  9. #8
    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    Try removing spark plug, adding Marvil Mystery Oil (or any other oil, that was just a shameless plug for Marvil) and seeing if engine can be turned over by hand. No plug means no compression so you should really get some tactile feed back if you use a socket on either the cam timing gear sprocket's nut or the equivalent nut on the crankshaft. Both are accessible behind covers on left side of engine. Crankshaft nut is maybe easiest to get to if you have a big washer to put in the grove and unscrew the small ~50mm plastic cover. Otherwise the cam sprocket cover comes off quickly with a re-usable o-ring gasket.
    If turning engine in nuetral, in the normal direction of travel, feels "free" then good news. A little screeching could be from dry valve follower, rocker, cam areas, etc. Then removing valve covers and squirting in some more oil might help replace oil lost during the bad oil filter episode. I would then try once again to hand turn over engine several revolution or more listening and feeling for ugliness. If all seems "clunk-free" then I would try using starter motor to spin things even more after first buttoning up all the open covers. This should circulate fresh oil while you listen for any anomalous noises, screeches, vibrations, grand map seizures, etc.
    Finally I would then re-install the spark plug and try to fire the bike.

    Note: This was just an attempt to evaluate and re-start the bike. Oil starvation due to incorrect oil filter can also lead to repeating the same parts list you've already been through. At least the shop would know what to be replaced again.
    2003 TW200 "Betty Boop"
    2006 TW200 "Nibbler", a.k.a. “Mr.Gizmo"
    Hidden Content All Things Considered I’ld Rather Be Motorcycling

  10. #9
    Senior Member GCFishguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by still learning View Post
    The repairs were completed the first week in January. I will gather my paperwork and give it a go on Monday. I will also get another filter and see if I can get the bike to fire up. As of now, it will not start. Does anyone know what it normally takes to repair one of these bikes after an issue like this? Thanks for the input.
    The less parts changing and attempts to repair that you do, the better. The incorrect filter isn't causing it to not 'fire up'. The incorrect filter is causing a lack of lubrication to the top end. If it screeched and bound up, the damage is likely already done. A new oil filter isn't going to change anything. It's possible that it didn't 'destroy' anything too. It may have just got hot enough that it seized up and after cooling, it will restart.
    Doubtful, but I had a Honda 125m that spent close to a year in jam jars while I saved enough money to buy a new case half. Being a kid, nobody ever told me to use a lint-free cloth, so the first run out, I was wailing along a dirt road 'right to the slats' and the oil screen was plugged with lint and it bound up solid...couldn't even pull the starter cord. I sat there a while and it cooled down and I restarted it and drove it home, cleaned the screen, and it lived a full and happy life.
    So....you MIGHT be able to restart it, put the right filter in it and drive it for years. But, on the slim chance that it does fire up and run fine, it will have taken a lot of life out of it, so you'd have to decide if you're going to ride it as is, or try to get the dealership to come good. If you're going after the dealer, leave everything alone.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    "couldn't even pull the starter cord" - that tends to date Fishhguy, doesn't it? I won't admit to how old I am.
    Good observations r.e. long term reliability as well as the don't touch advice before you are done with a claim with the independant repair shop that installed the incorrect oil filter.
    2003 TW200 "Betty Boop"
    2006 TW200 "Nibbler", a.k.a. “Mr.Gizmo"
    Hidden Content All Things Considered I’ld Rather Be Motorcycling

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