Another dang oil thread or Why full synthetic oil is NOT 100% synthetic oil
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Thread: Another dang oil thread or Why full synthetic oil is NOT 100% synthetic oil

  1. #1
    Senior Member Tweaker's Avatar
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    Another dang oil thread or Why full synthetic oil is NOT 100% synthetic oil

    So I came across a blog which I can't find again where a guy rants on full synthetic oil and why it isn't as good as 100% synthetic oil. I found this thread in another forum I think it is good info that crosses over to our bikes. M 1full syn 4T is an oil many use in their bikes thinking it is a true synthetic oil, it was, maybe not now. Around the 2000's the oil companies were allowed to call refined mineral oil synthetic due to a lawsuit between oil companty C and oil company M. Do you think we are being duped? Check it out and do some research yourself. I am not a chemist but the base oil in most Full synthetic oils now is not PAO which is considered real synthetic oil base. From my understanding real synthetic oil can be derived from mineral oil they just take Ethylene from it and do their chemical magic on those molecules to get a real synthetic oil. Now they are just highly refining mineral oil and are able to call it "full synthetic oil". A way cheaper process with lower performance qualities than true synthetic oil.

    WHY SYNTHETIC OIL IS NOT SYNTHETIC ANYMORE !
    lugnut, UncleRandy and Fred like this.
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    Twin 2014 TW200's made side by side on the assembly line, Moose rear racks, Protaper ATV high bars, DG oval pipes, kick starters, rejetted carbs, 130 main jets, 2 -3 -.020 shims on the needles and @ 2 1/2 turns on the pilot screw, #34 pilot jets, Acerbis hand guards, Shinko 241 front tires, modified Krator foot pegs, 14-55t sprockets, Ricochet skid plates and 90 degree fuel filters.

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    Senior Member UncleRandy's Avatar
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    I always knew it! You can't take something from the ground called oil...and "unmake it" into pretend oil. Unless you're in the oil refinery and marketing business.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mattwings's Avatar
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    My understanding, based on research and conversations with an engineeering friend, is the critical aspect of synthetic oil is the friction modifiers. Synthetic oil maintains a consistent molecular structure for a much longer service interval. Basically oil changes from 10w-40 to 25wt as it breaks down (or whatever the middle point of the oil is). The base oils can vary along with the additive packages, which all affect how the oil performs and what specifications it meets. I have tried several and use Bel Ray Thumper (Synthetic Blend) because I have found my TW likes it and the improvememt I feel in shifting after an oil change with Rotella or Yamalube lasts 500 miles with the Bel Ray and less than half that with the other oils. They do make a full synthetic (Ester based?) but so far the blend seems to last in the TW really well. I am ready to change at 500 miles just for the pice of mind. Just my 2 cents
    lugnut likes this.
    2002 TW200 "The Punisher"
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    Senior Member Tweaker's Avatar
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    Hi Matt I am not sure if you waded all the way through the article I posted. It is kinda shocking but not really that what they are calling "full" synthetic oil is not really. All oils have an additive package including friction modifers that are pretty good. If the base oil is true synthetic it has a higher heat range before break down. Mobil 1 used to be a true synthetic base oil with those properties now it may not be. I think Bel Ray makes a true synthetic oil and it has a much higher cost. I appreciate your feed back on the oil you use. I use Castrol "Full" synthetic because 1. I thought it had a higher temperature break down point. 2 it does shift better. After reading this article the "full" synthetic oil I have been paying extra for for extra heat protection may not actually have better protection against heat break down than regular oil.
    lugnut likes this.
    ”Everything You Know is Wrong”

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    Twin 2014 TW200's made side by side on the assembly line, Moose rear racks, Protaper ATV high bars, DG oval pipes, kick starters, rejetted carbs, 130 main jets, 2 -3 -.020 shims on the needles and @ 2 1/2 turns on the pilot screw, #34 pilot jets, Acerbis hand guards, Shinko 241 front tires, modified Krator foot pegs, 14-55t sprockets, Ricochet skid plates and 90 degree fuel filters.

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    Senior Member grewen's Avatar
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    i like the fact that you shared this article with us, but i won't be reading this one as i have found and use an oil i am very happy with. also it is one of the few oils i have tried that does not affect my clutch. i'm sure if i read this article i will be disappointed in the oil i use now, so i'll pass
    Greg

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  7. #6
    Senior Member Mattwings's Avatar
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    I did and have seen parts of that thread before (it is from 2000). There have been some changes to oils in the last 17 years and one of the issues that was just starting to show up in 2000 was reduced levels of ZINC. Oil manufactures seemed to try all sorts of tricks to meet the new specs and not destroy the still common flat tappet and older technolgy motors (TWs included��).This created all sorts of havoc with flat tappet cams (non roller). If you look at the breakdowns of oils, you can see that some do not use PAOs, but they are in fact synthetic (Ester based). I have found that splitting the difference (blended, high quality oil, meeting the specs for the motor I am running it in) seems to provide me the best value, if not ultimate performance. Many of the assertions made in the post are also no longer valid. Some manufacturers do specify synthetic. Many do specify longer oil change intervals with synthetic and several manufacturers of oil are more forthcoming with thier formulations. Bel Ray, for instance details the base stock and formulations in thier "full" synthetic and blend oils.

    I know wikipedia can be wrong, but I found thier defintions interesting too- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

    I am not advocating anybody use anything, just my two cents. I originally went for Rotella for a host of reasons, just on my bike, it went from fresh great shifting to gritty, hard shifting in 2 or 3 tanks of fuel. Thats not even two weekends, Bel Ray was still good at over 500 miles for me, changed it just to check the filter and screens.

    I love oil threads btw!
    Tweaker and lugnut like this.
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    Senior Member lugnut's Avatar
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    I will be keeping an eye on this thread as I was going to ask which oil/oils everybody here seemed to like the best. Thanks for the info so far.
    Tweaker likes this.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Xracer's Avatar
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    OK..The BEST oil for you Dub is ............... and if you add ............ it's even better!! There...I hope I've made everybody happy.
    Tweaker, UncleRandy and grewen like this.

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    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    Same answers every time! Which oil to use is the same as Boxers or Briefs! Find which one you like and use or wear them. The real question or concern goes more to how often you change the oil or your underwear and keeping the level up. I prefer Fruit of the Loom but then nuts and not really fruits. Mobil 1 4TR has worked just fine for me and I recommend it to anyone who asks me which oil to use in the TW. My recommendation for your shorts is to change them regularly or at least get the kind that are reversible.

    GaryL
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  11. #10
    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xracer View Post
    OK..The BEST oil for you Dub is ............... and if you add ............ it's even better!! There...I hope I've made everybody happy.
    Cool! Happy Birthday!

    GaryL
    Xracer likes this.
    Be Decisive! Right or Wrong just make a decision. ​ The road of life is paved with flat squirrels that couldn't make a decision.

    Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
    If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

    1987 Yamaha BW350 Big Wheel
    2017 Snowdog Track sled tow motor for ice fishing
    Kubota BX2370 Subcompact tractor with snow blower
    Wilderness System Ride 115 fishing Kayaks

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