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Thread: Subframe and racks

  1. #1
    Member dman33's Avatar
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    Subframe and racks

    I have searched for maybe a good how to fix to beef up the subframe. it is apparently a problem if you want to adventure ride and want to haul anything more than your lunch. my main use will be adventure riding 2-5 day trips. I am replacing my trusty XR650L for the task. it also had a worthless sub frame that I beefed up mostly with gussets. I found a few threads like the recent one about cycleracks in Baja. it is good information but really didnt seem to say what the best subframe fix would be. can anyone point me to a good fix thread with lots of pics. mine is not currently broken and I want it to stay that way..

    Also the cycleracks rack seems to be a pretty good option also the happy trails set up.... any other ones that offer sub frame strengthening and can carry more than my pillow?

    Thanks in advance

    Dman
    DMAN

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    HODAKAS, 950 KTM ADV, YAMAHAS

    "EVERY SOLUTION IS THE SEED OF THE NEXT PROBLEM"

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Rhodetrip's Avatar
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    Mrs Trip's bike... not the one in Baja.... with a repair done in Colorado. This piece welded in to back the OEM strap worked OK except a piece of the strap where the rack screwed down subsequently broke out. My bike that I rode in Baja recently has a similar fix.





    I had a local welder make a batch of replacement pieces. These are on our bikes in Ireland, Mrs Trip's bike that she rode in Baja, and at least one other. I think they are overkill and could have been made narrower, but he used stock he had on hand. The Admiral says he used one of these that I sent him... I am not sure if anyone used the others that I sent out.








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  3. #3
    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    Rhodetrip demonstrates perhaps the best method to re-inforce the the under seat crossmember which tends to break from CycleRack usage. This is not part of the sub-frame.

    From the pictures above one can see that in standard configuration the sub-frame does not have anything todo with the CycleRack, they do not touch. If one wishes to modify the standard mounting then some of us tie into the sub-frame with custom work such as tying into the turn signal mounts on the subframe like some other brands of racks do.
    When one wishes to use the sub-frame for any support one can see the 4 stock attachment points to the frame are sacrificial fairly thin straps. Better to damage these replaceable elements in a shunt than to transfer damage to the frame proper. These are not very strong and can suffer the same fatigue fractures as the thin stock under seat cross piece. These are the weakest link in the subframe and the primary point to address if one wishes to strengthen the assembly.
    Good luck!
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  5. #4
    Senior Member troll's Avatar
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    I don't have any good photos.... But the cyclerack style of mounting from behind the seat to the frame cross member allows for regular and significant twisting of the cross member..... Thus the failure. By beefing up the cross member those forces will eventually fatigue the main frame at the weld points. If the rack mounting were to come out directly to the side of the seat parallel with the cross member it would eliminate the twisting moment.

    By beefing up the frame the fatigue moves to the weakest point.... Looks to be the cyclerack by rhodetrips experience. The cyclerack design has some weaknesses
    Last edited by troll; 02-10-2018 at 10:27 AM.

  6. #5
    Senior Member grewen's Avatar
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    i've done the same as Jim with the flat bar. 1" mild steel shaped to fit under the stock frame support and welded to the frame it self. i shaped it to fit tight inside the stock support and it was easy to weld solid. my picture isn't really good, but may help. with that support strengthened and additional supports placed at the rear of the rack to take the bounce away, which saved the under seat to rack support, i never had any kind of breakage or cracking. all this, plus the fact, that i rarely beat the crap out of my bike.


    35.JPG


    all so, i have a theory on how the installation of the rack may effect the longevity of the rack and subframe. when i installed mine, i bolted the under seat bracket first. then i found one leg was lined up and one was over an inch out, in 2 directions. i could have forced it to fit, but then the seat bracket ( being the weak point already) would have started it's life off all ready under stress. i had to take a pipe bender to make it fit perfectly, making the whole thing relaxed. just my theory, but seemed to work.
    Last edited by grewen; 02-10-2018 at 11:06 AM.
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    Greg

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  7. #6
    Senior Member troll's Avatar
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    1.75 gal rotopax and 60lb of gear....
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    Last edited by troll; 02-10-2018 at 11:13 AM.
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  8. #7
    Senior Member grewen's Avatar
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    nice, and it looks like you manage to keep a lot of your weight forward, off of the tail of the rack which sure would help. so with your front bracket where it is, how did you bolt your seat on? isn't that bracket where the seat bolts go?
    Last edited by grewen; 02-10-2018 at 11:45 AM.
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    Greg

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  9. #8
    Senior Member troll's Avatar
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    You are correct, the tail sections on the TW are very light material. Panier supports are forward as well...
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    Last edited by troll; 02-10-2018 at 11:47 AM.

  10. #9
    Member dman33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by troll View Post
    I don't have any good photos.... But the cyclerack style of mounting from behind the seat to the frame cross member allows for regular and significant twisting of the cross member..... Thus the failure. By beefing up the cross member those forces will eventually fatigue the main frame at the weld points. If the rack mounting were to come out directly to the side of the seat parallel with the cross member it would eliminate the twisting moment.

    By beefing up the frame the fatigue moves to the weakest point.... Looks to be the cyclerack by rhodetrips experience. The cyclerack design has some weaknesses
    I can see the main frame is not a tower of strength either, looks like the whole thing can use a bunch of additional braces and gussets The best rack support looks to be using the rear foot pegs mounts for the main front attachment.
    DMAN

    TW200D

    HODAKAS, 950 KTM ADV, YAMAHAS

    "EVERY SOLUTION IS THE SEED OF THE NEXT PROBLEM"

    YOU CAN HAVE IT GOOD, FAST, OR CHEAP = PICK 2

    IF ITS GOOD AND FAST, ITS NOT CHEAP. IF ITS GOOD AND CHEAP ITS NOT FAST, IF ITS FAST AND CHEAP , ITS NOT GOOD.

  11. #10
    Member dman33's Avatar
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    looked at the happy trails rack, mounts different than the cycle rack but still all the weight is supported from the sub frame. the cross bar at the rear will help reduce the side to side flexing but still relies on the sub frame for the main support. Not crazy about the directional extenders looks kinda dorky to me, Anyone with the Happy set up have any issues with frame breakage?
    DMAN

    TW200D

    HODAKAS, 950 KTM ADV, YAMAHAS

    "EVERY SOLUTION IS THE SEED OF THE NEXT PROBLEM"

    YOU CAN HAVE IT GOOD, FAST, OR CHEAP = PICK 2

    IF ITS GOOD AND FAST, ITS NOT CHEAP. IF ITS GOOD AND CHEAP ITS NOT FAST, IF ITS FAST AND CHEAP , ITS NOT GOOD.

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