Shifting without the clutch?
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Thread: Shifting without the clutch?

  1. #1
    Member Soulprogression108's Avatar
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    Shifting without the clutch?

    I’ve been watching some videos on The MX Factory channel about riding off road and on dirt track. (Mostly wanting to learn to wheel this fat cat haha)

    Interestingly he spoke about how when riding hard and accelerating riders don’t even use the clutch they simply shift up as they speed up and meet the shift point. Now I know these are generally race bikes he’s speaking of and the Tdub is far from that. The question being how dofferent is the clutch? When powering around a track or accelerating hard is there any damage in not using the clutch to shift up? I’ve of course accidentally downshifted like this which doesn’t feel good. But have been experimenting a little with slightly backing of the throttle and upshifting while accelerating. It feels fine and seems to keep the motor and transmission all heading more in the same direction whereas pulling the clutch to upshift feels like it’s breaking that momentum....

    Wise elders of the forum please enlighten this young dubber!
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    Senior Member bartruff's Avatar
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    Other than to engage first gear, you can change gears without using the clutch if you are close to matching the RPMs ….. however my racing days are long gone when the bikes were rebuilt several times a season......and I have no need to accelerate hard or for that matter to deaccelerate hard ….so I use the clutch....as you pointed out, the TW is not exactly a high performance bike …... why abuse it ?

    I am not sure but I think the owners manual says to use the clutch....but it is out in the garage and there are lions and tigers and bears out there in the night...so I am not going to go get it...
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  3. #3
    Member Soulprogression108's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff View Post
    Other than to engage first gear, you can change gears without using the clutch if you are close to matching the RPMs ….. however my racing days are long gone when the bikes were rebuilt several times a season......and I have no need to accelerate hard or for that matter to deaccelerate hard ….so I use the clutch....as you pointed out, the TW is not exactly a high performance bike …... why abuse it ?

    I am not sure but I think the owners manual says to use the clutch....but it is out in the garage and there are lions and tigers and bears out there in the night...so I am not going to go get it...[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.tw200forum.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
    Hahaha i think i can confirm reading that. Mostly just interested. No need take on the creatures of the garage.

    Also considered that they probably have to rebuild clutches trans and motors frequently and like u say why create that problem for yourself. Other than still being young and stupid haha

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    Senior Member assquatch20's Avatar
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    Yeah that's the primary difference, $.

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    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    My clutch cable broke one time out in the trails. I was able to get the bike on a slight down hill in neutral and once rolling I banged it into first gear and shifted quite a few times on the way back home without the clutch. It is not at all recommended but certainly is doable in the pinch. Matching the engine RPMs and shifting gears at the sweet point is the key to not damaging the tranny. Downshifting is harder on the gears than up shifting.

    GaryL
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  7. #6
    Senior Member bartruff's Avatar
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    I had the same experience Gary...one of the other riders busted the clutch lever....and since I was the most experienced with clutch less shifting I rode it out....no problem..... but after that I always have a extra brake and clutch handle in my pack.

    I have not been around a factory racing bike for decades but I do know that Honda had a ECU based Electronic Shift without Lift in their Indy cars ...no clutch….you could hear a backfire when the driver shifted …..I would not be surprised if that technology has transferred to the factory bikes where the stakes are high and cost is not a concern......I don't think you shift battery powered bikes .???
    Last edited by bartruff; 02-05-2019 at 08:50 AM.
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  8. #7
    Senior Member assquatch20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff View Post
    I had the same experience Gary...one of the other riders busted the clutch lever....and since I was the most experienced with clutch less shifting I rode it out....no problem..... but after that I always have a extra brake and clutch handle in my pack.

    I have not been around a factory racing bike for decades but I do know that Honda had a ECU based Electronic Shift without Lift in their Indy cars ...no clutch….you could hear a backfire when the driver shifted …..I would not be surprised if that technology has transferred to the factory bikes where the stakes are high and cost is not a concern......I don't think you shift battery powered bikes .???
    Yeah no need for a transmission hardly. All the torque comes on at 1rpm. You could add gears but it would only be for extreme torque multiplication or incredibly high cruising speed. Most electric motors can get up to a few thousand RPM before the torque begins to drop off at all. It's a relatively flat, wide curve.
    Last edited by assquatch20; 02-05-2019 at 09:01 AM.

  9. #8
    Senior Member elime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff View Post

    I have not been around a factory racing bike for decades but I do know that Honda had a ECU based Electronic Shift without Lift in their Indy cars ...no clutch….
    Is this what the "clutch master" setting in the Igni Tech CDI will do? Some kind of gizmo hooks to this wire to kill the engine while the gears are being changed?

    Clutchmaster.jpgClutchmaster1.jpg
    Last edited by elime; 02-05-2019 at 09:24 AM.
    Long live the internal combustion engine!

  10. #9
    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    Not sure Elime. Gear selection is a simple mater of matching the engine RPMs that are spinning the gears so when the shift fork slides to the next gear the teeth are going at the same speed and mesh easily. I learned to drive a standard shift in my grandfathers truck that had 3 speeds and it had to be double clutched between shifts. Grandpa knew his truck so well that he rarely ever used the clutch at all except for starting from stop. He knew the sweet spot between RPM and gears meshing. While I was learning I bet I ground off a few pounds of those gears but I never heard gramps grind them at all with or without the clutch.

    GaryL
    elime and joeband like this.
    Be Decisive! Right or Wrong just make a decision. ​ The road of life is paved with flat squirrels that couldn't make a decision.

    Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
    If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

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  11. #10
    Senior Member elime's Avatar
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    A 14 year old neighbor kid taught me to double clutch a Model A when I was 11 years old. Those were lessons that have lasted a life time.
    Fred, GaryL and joeband like this.
    Long live the internal combustion engine!

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