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Thread: Something every one of us should read and heed!

  1. #21
    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NVcowboy View Post
    I have a couple friends that work at the chopper hangar at our little airport, wonder if they'd let me fill a few cans of AV, y'know, for research and all.
    A while back and on another Ethanol discussion we had a member who was quite knowledgeable on AVGas. I know it is most often a higher octane fuel and pretty sure it still contains lead or a lead additive. Where it does us no good is in the fact the TW does not have the higher compression to utilize the higher octane. A nice old 426 Hemi would be in heaven with the AVgas but not so much for the slow old TWs. Wish I could remember his name from those past discussions but I have 67 excuses why I can't.

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  2. #22
    GOF
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    Yeah. I'm not recalling who it was either. AVGas has tetra ethyl lead in it. That can cause fouling of the plug. As for the octane, yeah, it won't help a low compression engine. But it won't hurt it either. Octane is, basically, a measure of a fuels resistance to detonation. Unless you are running higher compression or greater timing advance it really doesn't help your engine.
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  3. #23
    GOF
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    Anyone know the legality of running AVGas on the road? I remember that some fuels meant for of highway use, such as farms, are taxed different and are a different color than fuels meant for highway use. Or that was the case back in the day.
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  5. #24
    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOF View Post
    Anyone know the legality of running AVGas on the road? I remember that some fuels meant for of highway use, such as farms, are taxed different and are a different color than fuels meant for highway use. Or that was the case back in the day.
    As far as I know those restrictions apply only to diesel fuels. Different color fuels for on road and off road or Farm Fuel. Farmers don't have to pay the additional road taxes.

    GaryL
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    Be Decisive! Right or Wrong just make a decision. ​ The road of life is paved with flat squirrels that couldn't make a decision.

    Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
    If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

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  6. #25
    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    Interestingly enough I used to travel extensively in a country where both pure gas and pure ethanol were sold at most gas stations side-by-side. Customers were welcome to fill up with whatever they wanted. I never heard tales of ethanol related difficulties , but then I didn't speak the language that well. However my nose "spoke" the language well enough to detect unburnt ethanol in the emissions of many vehicles. I usually bought pure high octane gas for a Fiat but it also ran acceptably on E100. fiat.jpeg
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  7. #26
    GOF
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryL View Post
    As far as I know those restrictions apply only to diesel fuels. Different color fuels for on road and off road or Farm Fuel. Farmers don't have to pay the additional road taxes.

    GaryL
    I was just thinking that AVGas might not be taxed like highway gas. IE not charged the road tax. Seeing as how the frown on it when planes use the highway.
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  8. #27
    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOF View Post
    I was just thinking that AVGas might not be taxed like highway gas. IE not charged the road tax. Seeing as how the frown on it when planes use the highway.
    Ha Ha, Good luck on that one GOF, there is probably some sort of Aviation or "Air Tax" placed on AV Fuels! If they can afford a plane then surely they can afford a special tax to run the damn thing.

    Yea Fred, I have heard some countries do have E-100 but I'll be damned if I can figure that out. Ethanol is some caustic stuff and just a little of the stuff can wipe the white off a cue ball. Even the E-10 we have here should never be used in an aluminum fuel tank like they usually put in boats and on lots of engines. It will destroy a fiberglass tank in just one season but now most boats come with ethanol compliant plastic tanks and hoses. I have no idea what ethanol does to Stainless Steel tanks but we do know what it does if left long in our TW metal tanks and aluminum float bowls and the brass parts in our carbs. I base my opinions on the many small engine manufacturers who have done serious testing along with major auto manufacturers who say the E-10 is not too bad while the E-15 will void their warranty. There has to be something to this stuff they won't come right out and say. 10% as in E-10 is Okay while 5% more as in E-15 is NO GO. Think of it this way. While in the USN and stationed in Norfolk Va. a young sailor under 21 was allowed to drink 3.2 % beer but if you were 21 you could drink the regular beers. Us young guys just drank more beer and got just as drunk and stupid.

    GaryL
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    Be Decisive! Right or Wrong just make a decision. ​ The road of life is paved with flat squirrels that couldn't make a decision.

    Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
    If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

    1987 Yamaha BW350 Big Wheel
    2017 Snowdog Track sled tow motor for ice fishing
    Kubota BX2370 Subcompact tractor with snow blower
    Wilderness System Ride 115 fishing Kayaks

  9. #28
    GOF
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryL View Post
    Ha Ha, Good luck on that one GOF, there is probably some sort of Aviation or "Air Tax" placed on AV Fuels! If they can afford a plane then surely they can afford a special tax to run the damn thing.


    GaryL
    Oh I hear ya. But you know NY as well as I. Just because they are tagging it with an "air" tax doesn't mean they don't wanna get you for a road tax as well. And penalties (AKA fines) as well.
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  10. #29
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    E-10 LOWERS your gas mileage. Ask anyone running an alcohol drag car... just how huge they had to go with the jetting, when they switched from gasoline to alcohol/nitromethane mix. There are benefits, as far as ultimate horsepower goes, but for the population at large.... we're being scammed. It takes about twice the volume of alcohol to produce the same amount of power as gasoline. So, 10% alcohol drops your mileage by about 5%. I've noticed the effect on both the car and the larger bikes. The car rarely gets non ethanol fuel... only available as premium and I'll see about 1.5 MPG better, in a car that usually returns about 34 to a gallon; the big bikes go from 46-47 to 48-49 miles from a gallon. I do try to ensure that the final tanks run through the bikes (tough to do with 6) each season are alcohol free.
    Over the years, the only thing I've found to keep carburetors clean is Chevron's 'Techron' (same as GM's fuel injection cleaner) fuel injection cleaner. The insides of my carbs look like new whenever they're opened... they used to be crusted with white (water/alcohol) or yellowed with varnish. Just an ounce or two whenever I bring them home with a fresh full tank. Back when, it was GM's official policy, to put a jar into the fuel tank when a customer complained about a faulty fuel gauge, worked about 99% of the time and a second dose cured half of the return complaints.
    Rubber and alcohol don't mix, so switch out your old rubber fuel lines to modern stuff, we'll have to deal with degrading diaphragms and the like for the foreseeable future... Canned fuel for my seasonal two strokes works well... so I'll be sticking with that... no matter the cost.
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  11. #30
    Junior Member BrotherJim's Avatar
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    I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, but think about all of the energy throughput and emissions required to harvest the corn, and then to make the ethanol. What resources were necessary just to build the ethanol plants? The EPA conveniently leaves these emissions out of their claimed lower emissions from ethanol use, because it would be blatantly obvious to everyone how entropic ethanol really is. To be honest, I have had little issue with e10 in any of my motorcycles, but I do take precautions with additives and using e0 fuel for longer storage periods. I have had to refurbish the fuel systems in some of my smaller power equipment likely due to e10. I will say that I'm pretty pissed about the idea of e15!
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