7 year old arrested for bringing nerf-type gun to school
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  1. #1
    Senior Member mudpuppy's Avatar
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    Another example of zero tolerance saving the world : http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...115125844.html



    What is a real shame is that not only does the school have its head up its collective asses for making it a police matter, but the police dept didn't have the balls to tell the school to just deal with it internally as a violation of school rules.



    In almost all cases, police have the discretion to make an arrest or not at the time they learn of a potential 'crime': violators are frequently let go with a warning or with instructions to handle it as a civil case, and questionable cases are routinely referred to the the states attorney for a determination on whether to proceed criminally. I'd like to think the cops in this case did let the states attorney make the idiotic decision, but the story doesn't specifically say so. As a retired cop, this news report makes me want to hang my head in embarrassment.





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  2. #2
    Senior Member pgilles's Avatar
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    Your link wasn't working... http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...115125844.html



    I'm not saying I agree with how it was handled, but to some little extent I can understand. The school doesn't want any discretion whatsoever. They want their rule to apply to everyone, and then enforce it in a strictly yes-or-no fashion. This prevents their own discretion coming into play when deciding on punishments based on the type of gun: Nerf gun, BB gun, water gun, cap gun, etc. A discretion is just an opinion, and if the school makes their own discretion based off each individual case the results will be upset parents (customers), starts the elusion of favoritism/biasness, consequences become political decisions based on who the parents are, fear of being sued, etc.



    It sounds ridiculous, but if the kid never got in trouble some parent would probably come out saying their child is traumatized and they'd end up suing the school because the school didn't enforce the gun policy strict enough thereby making their child nervous to continue going to school.





    As far as my personal opinion of this story, I think the adults are the ones that need to be educated.



    If only we could quantify "common sense" just like IQ...
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  3. #3
    Senior Member mudpuppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgilles View Post
    Your link wasn't working... http://www.nbcphilad...-115125844.html



    I'm not saying I agree with how it was handled, but to some little extent I can understand. The school doesn't want any discretion whatsoever. If only we could quantify "common sense" just like IQ...


    Thanks for fixing the link--I'll try editing it in my original post too.



    Schools have to exercise discretion and common sense though. In this case they brought in the police for what could have been handled internally as a violation of school regulations----- family conference, detention, suspension, etc.... It is the same discretion they would use if a 7 year old got angry and shoved another kid on the playground---- calling the police to have the child arrested for battery would make as much sense as their actions in this case (and if the police arrested the 7 year old for battery, the cops would still be an embarrassment).



    Political correctness, fear of lawsuits, and failure to use common sense holds the rule of law itself up to ridicule. School Superintendents (like the the man with the Doctorate in this school district) are usually paid way over $100,000 per year. A man at that level of education and responsibility should do more than hide behind the stupidity of 'zero tolerance' excuses. Likewise for the police.



    Next thing you know, we'll have the government banning children sized ATVs and motorcycles because of the lead terminals on their batteries. Oh wait, that actually happened too.



    Not ragging on you pgilles. Just fed up with idiots being in positions of authority.



    Corey
    two 2009 TWs, Ricochet skidplates, Moose Racing 'Expedition' rack (like a Borrega), DID 428V O-ring chains, DMoto2 -style black steel footpegs from eBay

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  5. #4
    Senior Member lizrdbrth's Avatar
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    Amen.



    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

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  6. #5
    Senior Member pgilles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudpuppy View Post
    Thanks for fixing the link--I'll try editing it in my original post too.



    Schools have to exercise discretion and common sense though. In this case they brought in the police for what could have been handled internally as a violation of school regulations----- family conference, detention, suspension, etc.... It is the same discretion they would use if a 7 year old got angry and shoved another kid on the playground---- calling the police to have the child arrested for battery would make as much sense as their actions in this case (and if the police arrested the 7 year old for battery, the cops would still be an embarrassment).



    Political correctness, fear of lawsuits, and failure to use common sense holds the rule of law itself up to ridicule. School Superintendents (like the the man with the Doctorate in this school district) are usually paid way over $100,000 per year. A man at that level of education and responsibility should do more than hide behind the stupidity of 'zero tolerance' excuses. Likewise for the police.



    Next thing you know, we'll have the government banning children sized ATVs and motorcycles because of the lead terminals on their batteries. Oh wait, that actually happened too.



    Not ragging on you pgilles. Just fed up with idiots being in positions of authority.



    Corey


    All I'm saying is that maybe their "regulations" verbally state that if a gun is present then the police are called. Maybe their regulations are written to remove all discretion. Again, I'm not saying I agree with how it was handled, but as you read that article there is a parent stating she was glad it was handled more severely than not. So, who's discretion is right, yours/mine or that parent's? You and I believe the school went too far and should've just dropped it, but that parent does not. That's the grey area. In her eyes this was all common sense. In our eyes it was not.



    The other half of the story is the police that actually arrested the kid. Again, like I said, the adults in this story are the ones that need to be educated because they obviously don't understand how ridiculous their actions were.



    Think of how many people may want a pool or trampoline in their backyard, but because of ridiculous insurance premiums and the fear of a neighbor kid coming over and drowning/breaking their neck and the impending lawsuit as a result has kept people from having their pool or trampoline. Fear of lawsuits does hold the law to ridicule, but that doesn't mean it's not happening out there. And I don't want to test it or fight it, that's for sure!



    Again, I'm on your side. I'm fed up too. For whatever reason our society has been coddling idiots and stupidity, thereby allowing them to get into places of authority. And God forbid we tell someone they are stupid, but it's getting to the point that we need to.



    Just playing a little devil's advocate, that's all
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  7. #6
    Banned qwerty's Avatar
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    Darwin has been sluffing off lately.




  8. #7
    Senior Member pgilles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
    Darwin has been sluffing off lately.


    No, he's just busy over in Vietnam...

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110207/...party_deaths_1
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  9. #8
    Senior Member TK200's Avatar
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    Christ I use to take my shotgun to school so I could go hunting afterward, my kid can't even carry a swiss army knife to school anymore which was a tool not a weapon, damn shame the way things turned out. I carried a stiletto most of the time in the high school years just because it was a knife to me. Still have it.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Adam-n-nevada's Avatar
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    Great points everyone.



    As one of the youngsters on this site, I can agree with such notions that many and most activities that were enjoyed by my parents (baby boom generation) and often looked at with a look of discouragement and a shake of the finger (by johnny law) are now misdeamors and/or felony charges. I've heard a year's worth of stories from my father, of his youth filled with harassing the authorities. I'm not saying all were that way.



    It is a shame that the perpetuation of more severe and strict laws continue to rob people from life. Life is about making choices, whether they are good or bad. If the govt. continues to make these choices for us, we will be left with completely complacent, ignorant and fearful citizens....sound familiar??



    scary shit it is, when you acknowledge the coming nightmare.

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  11. #10
    Banned qwerty's Avatar
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    In 3rd-5th grades many of us carried pocket knives to school and the principal would come out to recess with her own knife and teach us how to whittle. She also taught us how to keep a knife razor sharp. Every classroom in the school was furnished with a plethora of hand-carved paper weights, coat hooks, name plaques, statuetes, etc. We made spoon rests, napkin holders, hot plates, change plates, napkin wrings, etc., for family members for presents. My parents still have and use all the little baubles I whittled for them and my grandparents over 45 years ago.




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