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Thread: Net Neutrality

  1. #1
    Senior Member LuvNot's Avatar
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    Net Neutrality

    I tend to stay away from politics. People who make a living controlling other people are not my favorite people. Politics are scary because any smooth talking SOB can convince otherwise sane people to back their bid to ruin their lives.

    And right now, we're all about to be royally bent over without a kiss if the current head of the FCC has his way and eliminates Net Neutrality. I don't care if your left, right, or upside down, the loss of net neutrality will be the last straw that breaks the dam holding back greedy communication companies from controlling everything we see on the internet. Right now, everyone on this site has access to any form of information they want to find. But if we lose Net Neutrality, communication companies can legally throttle back any site that is currently out of favor or that does not generate enough profit to make it worth their while to release to their "customers". I use quotes on "customers" because our opinion no longer concerns massive corporations. They already have shady practices that jacks up rates, illegally slows down services and blocks content. It's already happened on Tumblr: Verizon bought Yahoo, which runs Tumblr - Verizon is against Net Neutrality - Verizon shut down the Tumblr team from promoting Net Neutrality and has an algorithm that automatically unfollows any thread tagged with that metadata. This reduces the traffic to that site, making it more difficult to learn anything new in the daily fight.

    Listen, I may sound like a nut job, but know y'all are active, participatory Citizens of the United States. As such, any threat to our freedom should be met head-on and our voices need to be heard. There's enough power already in our government's system. Make no mistake, this isn't about creating jobs or making up for the loss of money the communication companies claim they loss. The net has always been an open source in the US and has never caused a loss of jobs due to its nature. This system ain't broke. But as the old saying goes, "Knowledge is Power" - and if they throttle our ability to FREELY access knowledge, we will be totally powerless against the propaganda machine that's idling at the end of the street.

    Quote from another site:
    ---
    "... the House subcommittee that provides Congressional oversight for the FCC held an important hearing about the agency’s current plans, including current Chairman (and former Verizon lawyer) Ajit Pai’s move to gut Title II net neutrality protections that prevent ISPs from controlling what we do online with throttling, censorship, and extra fees.

    With Capitol Hill’s attention now on the FCC, and Pai’s final plan to gut net neutrality protections expected in the coming weeks, it’s extra important that Congress gets flooded with phone calls from Internet users telling them to stand up and defend the open Internet.

    We’re also hearing there are key members of Congress considering whether to step in and force Pai to slow down. This means best chance to stop the FCC from breaking the fundamental principle that makes the Internet awesome is to pound Congress with phone calls right now.

    You can call your reps easily with just one click here: battleforthenet.com

    You’ll see a script on your screen, or you can say something like this:

    “I support Title Two net neutrality rules and I urge you to oppose the FCC’s plan to repeal them. Specifically, I’d like you to contact the FCC Chairman and demand he abandon his current plan.”

    You can also just call this number directly and enter your zipcode to get connected to your legislators: 202-930-8550.

    If you run a website, blog, tumblr, or forum, help spread the word by putting up a sticky post, or use one of these widgets, ads, or banners: https://www.battleforthenet.com/#join

    It’s clear that the FCC remains set on killing net neutrality. But Congress can stop the FCC from gutting the rules that keep the web open, affordable, and awesome."

    ---
    Me back again... If you value your freedom and right to choose to seek information on the net - right, wrong, or just strange - please take two minutes to let your representatives know you're serious about keeping the few freedoms we have left.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Smitty Blackstone's Avatar
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    Thank you for calling this to my attention.
    I shall act on this ASAP.
    Ken likes this.

  3. #3
    Member Happypop's Avatar
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    Done!
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    Senior Member WECSOG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGman View Post
    https://www.eff.org/

    This is the NRA of the (US) internet.
    So, you're saying they are backstabbers who only pretend to defend our rights, while actually making deals with our enemies?
    Dryden-Tdub likes this.
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  6. #5
    Senior Member Dryden-Tdub's Avatar
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    I am sick of the "LIKE" button not working!!!!

    So here is a BIG FAT LIKE for WECSOG!!!!!



    Tom
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  7. #6
    Senior Member Leisure Time Larry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuvNot View Post
    I tend to stay away from politics. People who make a living controlling other people are not my favorite people. Politics are scary because any smooth talking SOB can convince otherwise sane people to back their bid to ruin their lives.

    And right now, we're all about to be royally bent over without a kiss if the current head of the FCC has his way and eliminates Net Neutrality. I don't care if your left, right, or upside down, the loss of net neutrality will be the last straw that breaks the dam holding back greedy communication companies from controlling everything we see on the internet. Right now, everyone on this site has access to any form of information they want to find. But if we lose Net Neutrality, communication companies can legally throttle back any site that is currently out of favor or that does not generate enough profit to make it worth their while to release to their "customers". I use quotes on "customers" because our opinion no longer concerns massive corporations. They already have shady practices that jacks up rates, illegally slows down services and blocks content. It's already happened on Tumblr: Verizon bought Yahoo, which runs Tumblr - Verizon is against Net Neutrality - Verizon shut down the Tumblr team from promoting Net Neutrality and has an algorithm that automatically unfollows any thread tagged with that metadata. This reduces the traffic to that site, making it more difficult to learn anything new in the daily fight.

    Listen, I may sound like a nut job, but know y'all are active, participatory Citizens of the United States. As such, any threat to our freedom should be met head-on and our voices need to be heard. There's enough power already in our government's system. Make no mistake, this isn't about creating jobs or making up for the loss of money the communication companies claim they loss. The net has always been an open source in the US and has never caused a loss of jobs due to its nature. This system ain't broke. But as the old saying goes, "Knowledge is Power" - and if they throttle our ability to FREELY access knowledge, we will be totally powerless against the propaganda machine that's idling at the end of the street.

    Quote from another site:
    ---
    "... the House subcommittee that provides Congressional oversight for the FCC held an important hearing about the agency’s current plans, including current Chairman (and former Verizon lawyer) Ajit Pai’s move to gut Title II net neutrality protections that prevent ISPs from controlling what we do online with throttling, censorship, and extra fees.

    With Capitol Hill’s attention now on the FCC, and Pai’s final plan to gut net neutrality protections expected in the coming weeks, it’s extra important that Congress gets flooded with phone calls from Internet users telling them to stand up and defend the open Internet.

    We’re also hearing there are key members of Congress considering whether to step in and force Pai to slow down. This means best chance to stop the FCC from breaking the fundamental principle that makes the Internet awesome is to pound Congress with phone calls right now.

    You can call your reps easily with just one click here: battleforthenet.com

    You’ll see a script on your screen, or you can say something like this:

    “I support Title Two net neutrality rules and I urge you to oppose the FCC’s plan to repeal them. Specifically, I’d like you to contact the FCC Chairman and demand he abandon his current plan.”

    You can also just call this number directly and enter your zipcode to get connected to your legislators: 202-930-8550.

    If you run a website, blog, tumblr, or forum, help spread the word by putting up a sticky post, or use one of these widgets, ads, or banners: https://www.battleforthenet.com/#join

    It’s clear that the FCC remains set on killing net neutrality. But Congress can stop the FCC from gutting the rules that keep the web open, affordable, and awesome."

    ---
    Me back again... If you value your freedom and right to choose to seek information on the net - right, wrong, or just strange - please take two minutes to let your representatives know you're serious about keeping the few freedoms we have left.
    I applaud the OP for a passionate, well-written opinion... I just think that it's wrong.

    I will offer my own opinion, the flip-side if you will. I am not doing it to "pick a fight", as I will post it and then leave the conversation. I just think that this issue is confusing, and can easily lead people down the wrong path.

    First, what does this affect? The Internet is a huge network with multiple smaller networks pieces and parts that fit together to connect us. Net neutrality does not affect the whole internet, as I think is the perception held by many, but affects the "final" connection from your Internet Service Provider (ISP) to you. Your ISP is whatever company you get your internet through. Maybe your cable company, Comcast, Cox, Time-Warner, or maybe it's your wireless company, Verizon, At&t, Sprint, etc.

    The OP first lost me by presenting these companies as "greedy communication corporations". Any business is in business to make a profit, with the exception of non-profits of course. Corporations make money for their stockholders (owners). For anyone with a pension, IRA, or anyone else with a fund trading account holding blue chip stocks... that's you. How one business is more greedy or "evil" than the other is simply opinion, and really irrelevant.

    So, these companies are responsible for creating, providing, and maintaining that final network to get the internet to you and your devices. I really don't think that they have an interest in censoring your interests. They are interested in having some control of how they get all of that internet content freely flowing through the finite pipe. That's where I think this argument gets confusing. It's not really about content, it's about the delivery. These unrecognized fears and stories about censorship and "what will happen if", this doesn't concern content. Content is part of the rest of the internet, and other "big, greedy, evil" companies are already working hard at that. Google & YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Netflix, etc. all have been shown to limit or censor opposing viewpoints of their own ideology, from conservatism to gun enthusiasts. Net neutrality does nothing for this. The OP's own example of Tumblr and its connection to Verizon is one in the same. The perceived interference (I don't know since I've never heard this story and no documentation was cited) in this example would have been on the content side of the internet, the side not touched by net neutrality, not the ISP side or the delivery to users.

    When I get home from work, I want to watch Netflix, so I put it on, but ugh, it buffers. Has this happened to you? My speed plan is plenty fast enough, so what is it? It is that everyone else is getting home and wanting to stream as well. There is a finite pipe however, only so much data can flow through the wires at a given time. The illusion is that neutrality should be equality. Sounds good, right? But, what if neutrality is contributing to my buffering? If I pay Comcast for my fast internet connection, and I pay Netflix for streaming legal video content, but my 20 year old neighbor is streaming copyright infringed movies that are still in the theatres from a bit torrent site, or porn, should our streams really be treated equally?! I argue, no. I am okay with Comcast throttling down his thieving stream so that my legal stream has priority. That is a legitimate and a prudent example of what, why and how this will actually work in my opinion.

    "...any threat to our freedom should be met head-on and our voices need to be heard." Was it the freedom fighter William Wallace, or maybe it was John Hancock, which freedom cry ever followed up with..."and the solution to more freedom is clearly more governmental regulation, and we especially demand government regulate an undocumented systemic problem head on with heavy-handed Title II regulation over the light-handed Title I!"? No, I don't think anyone. Is regulation the golden road to innovation? Never. If you equate freedom with stricter government regulation, what's the saying? "I've got some great oceanfront property to sell you in Arizona."

    Finally, let's say hypothetically, that the worst fears are realized, and broad systematic harm comes to consumers due to the FCC reducing its regulation of the internet, does anybody really think that the way Title II was enacted in the first place is right and proper? The Federal Communications Commission voted along party lines during the final year of the Obama administration to give itself more regulatory authority over the internet and ISPs by declaring that the internet needed to be ruled under Title II rules instead of Title I. These are 85 year old rules set up to regulate railroads almost a century ago. No way this is the proper course of action. Congressional direction by way of a new and updated Federal Communications Act dealing with issues specific to the internet would be the proper course of action, should it ever be necessary. That is how a republic should work.

    Thank you for your time.
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  8. #7
    Senior Member WECSOG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGman View Post
    I thought the NRA was a sacred institution over there? When I hit the send button I wondered if that comment would come back to bite me...and here we are!

    I think the EFF do a great job and should be supported. Hows that?
    No. Without getting too deep into it, the left-leaning media likes to paint a picture of the NRA as an extremist organization goading mostly moderate gun owners into going along with their extreme views. The reality is almost the complete opposite. NRA is all about bargaining away our rights, and never a line in the sand. If you want to know what American gun owners really think about the NRA, turn off the mainstream media and go watch some Youtube gun channels... if they're not blocked in Australia.
    Sorry for the brief derailment. On net neutrality, I'm concerned but not 100% convinced on either side.
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  9. #8
    Super Moderator Purple's Avatar
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    Hmmm …..

    Well, just to draw a comparison, the newspapers (now the news nets) over here all have their own political opinions, and thus their own agenda. To take this to the extreme, it could be suggested that by constantly reinforcing their own “version” of events, they’re subtly brain washing their readers for their own ends

    And if you take this to a global level, Russia have been proven to be using bot accounts to “re-tweet” (or whatever it’s called) to increase the visibility of one side of an argument over another

    In one respect – ‘twas ever thus – it’s just that now we have the internet of everything, the opinion makers have adapted to use the internet to effectively “market” opinions, just like a competent speaker could do in the old days

    It’s the same old game – only the market place has changed

    Let’s say (for instance) that you are an Islamic extremist, or even a kitten hater – if you put certain search terms into Youtube, you will be greeted by many others who share your opinions. This in turn, is taken by “certain individuals” as often “proving” that their opinion is right, with the resultant carnage evident for all to see

    The problem here is not with the internet - it lies with the individuals who use it to bolster their own thoughts as an excuse for doing whatever they wanted to do in the first place, or as an accelerant to get to that stage

    As for “mass hysteria” – well, that one we can lay the blame squarely on those who use it – Hitler springs to mind (in extremis) – Trump, Tony Blair, have all done the same thing to some extent or another – but Hitler proved that he could still do it, long before the internet

    Internet neutrality isn’t about the internet, it’s about what’s on it – and how individuals choose to use that medium. Individual nutters will always be with us, and “mobs” too, it’s nothing new

    But the need to suppress the freedoms the internet gives, brings us back to the main question – how much do we ourselves need suppressing ? ……
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  10. #9
    Senior Member Dryden-Tdub's Avatar
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    My guns need suppressing. I do not.



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  11. #10
    Senior Member WECSOG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGman View Post
    I don't watch MSM (don't have a TV). None of the Youtube gun channels (or any other channel for that matter) is blocked here. Nutnfancy is about the only one I go back and look at a few times a year. He is a rabid supporter of the NRA and is always banging on about how everyone should join. We have a saying here in Australia about calling certain individuals "Captain Koala" - someone who takes the "Sheepdog" theory a bit too far. If Nutin' was an Aussie I'd say he was taking it a bit far but his attitude and stand may be relevant in the US - I don't know...not my circus.

    Out of interest, what do you think the NRA are getting in return for bargaining away your rights?
    More donations, especially from the largest gunmakers. Also almost certainly donations from political campaigns. I base that on the fact that NRA tells its membership who they should vote for, and their endorsement almost never goes to the most pro-gun candidate. Instead it usually goes to the Republican candidate with the deepest pockets.

    The largest gunmakers, like most other large corporations, ultimately benefit from greater restrictions that may put smaller, more specialized companies out of business. Every time there's a push for more restrictions, there is a huge rush among the gun-buying public to buy more guns, parts, ammo, etc. This upswing in sales is much larger than the potential loss of one minor product, for example bump-fire stocks. If the big company even makes a bump-fire stock, that product is a tiny percentage of its overall sales. But a smaller company might only make five products, including a bump-fire stock that accounts for perhaps a third of its profit.
    Bottom line, big company gives NRA a chunk of money and NRA just coincidentally backs legislation that benefits the big company to the detriment of gunowners and some small companies.
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