Relative Truths and Other Mental Ramblings
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  1. #1
    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    Relative Truths and Other Mental Ramblings

    Another thread brought up the concept of absolute right or wrong and what is perceived as truth. Sorry I know not of any current buzz word hype about "My truth".
    However my contention is that like beauty truth is in the eye of the beholder. What is touted as undeniable truths seems to vary by individual, culture, geography and time. For an example just look at current events:
    The people who live in the dark country depicted below by and large know as absolute fact that their series of infallible enlightened Great Leaders have saved the Land of the Morning Calm, defeating and expelling the Japanese in the 1940s and defeating and expelling the Americans in the 1950s. This is what they have been taught, this is what they thus know, thus it is Their Truth. Now you and I may think we know differently because we were taught differently. So what is accepted Truths depends if you grow up on the dark side, or bright side.
    North Korea.jpg
    Similarly within a society accepted truths can change in a fairly brief period. Look at the change in sea state in American ideology before and after December 7th 1941. Prior the majority knew that the truth was that isolationism was the correct path for America's future. Afterwards the majority embraced a new truth that our destiny and duty was to send our youth in harm's way and thus save the world for Mom, Apple Pie and western democratic values. Ooops, that's right, I forgot we were also told we should be buddies with Uncle Joe Stalin. After victory things changed and we were reminded that they were godless communists bent on world domination. Truths change.

    We could discuss religion and the various names for the almighty by the diverse groups who absolutely unquestionably know they are the exclusive chosen ones by the Creator. Whether it be the original or later day saints, prophets, buddas, shamans whatever they all teach us what they claim to be the the true way to the seven fold path to enlightenment, paradise, nirvana, heaven, afterlife, whatever. All different truths. Heck, I even know a zoroastrian lady who still adheres to her religion's truths despite her people being stamped/ stomped on for 2 millennia.
    So, what do you know?
    Last edited by Fred; 02-13-2018 at 10:06 AM.
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    Senior Member Xracer's Avatar
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    I know for a fact that riding the Dub clears my head. Other than that everything is just a guess except for my faith in God.

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    Super Moderator Purple's Avatar
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    History is usually written by the winners ......
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    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    Exactly Purple, and the winners literally and figuratively build the temples of the new gods and truths atop the ruins of the old temples. That the New World has continuity with the judeo-christian ancestery is not necessary due to any inherent ideological superiority or the Bible but rather that the natives lacked the metalurgical advancements and other tools of conquest to compete with the Europeans. Sharp steel, gunpowder, horses and a developed immune system against European pathogens did wonders to help teach new truths to the heathens.
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    Super Moderator Purple's Avatar
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    It’s curious though, that censorship plays such a strong role in all of this – North Korea denies and supresses what the Western world perceives as the truth – we in turn manipulate the interweb to supress IS – all of which the Vatican has been doing for many years

    Seems to me that it’s not just steel and gunpowder, but it also involves an unhealthy dose of propaganda and politics – in other words – manipulation

    And I dread to think of how many times people have used religion in exactly the same way

    “Thanksgiving”, a celebration of generosity to strangers, although I can’t help thinking it could have turned out better

    Islam – did you know is it regarded as a sin to turn a stranger from your door who asks for help ?

    Yet every time man tries to help man, there is someone waiting in the wings to put a wrench in the works for the sake of greed, or their own personal opinion on “how things ought to be”

    “it’s a tribal war, but on a global scale” – but who tells you what tribe you belong to ?

    Sure – there’s strength in numbers – but no-ones looking at the big picture ……….
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    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    The instinct for survival, both for immediate as well as for genetic survival , often manifests itself in humans as the pursuit of the four Ps...power, pleasure, profit and prestige. It is not always pretty.
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    Senior Member Trail Woman's Avatar
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    I spend hours a day contemplating such thoughts....Thanks for carrying the torch. I'll take today off.

    But do carry on....Question everything. Even yourself. It's all open to interpretation and perspective.
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    Senior Member troll's Avatar
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    Some very interesting reading is a book titled "Sapiens" written by Yuval Noah Harari.

    Good short review/summary, https://jamesclear.com/book-summaries/sapiens

    Definitely worth the read if you ask these questions about truth and myth

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    Senior Member Dryden-Tdub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    Another thread brought up the concept of absolute right or wrong and what is perceived as truth. Sorry I know not of any current buzz word hype about "My truth".
    However my contention is that like beauty truth is in the eye of the beholder. What is touted as undeniable truths seems to vary by individual, culture, geography and time. For an example just look at current events:
    The people who live in the dark country depicted below by and large know as absolute fact that their series of infallible enlightened Great Leaders have saved the Land of the Morning Calm, defeating and expelling the Japanese in the 1940s and defeating and expelling the Americans in the 1950s. This is what they have been taught, this is what they thus know, thus it is Their Truth. Now you and I may think we know differently because we were taught differently. So what is accepted Truths depends if you grow up on the dark side, or bright side.
    North Korea.jpg
    Similarly within a society accepted truths can change in a fairly brief period. Look at the change in sea state in American ideology before and after December 7th 1941. Prior the majority knew that the truth was that isolationism was the correct path for America's future. Afterwards the majority embraced a new truth that our destiny and duty was to send our youth in harm's way and thus save the world for Mom, Apple Pie and western democratic values. Ooops, that's right, I forgot we were also told we should be buddies with Uncle Joe Stalin. After victory things changed and we were reminded that they were godless communists bent on world domination. Truths change.

    We could discuss religion and the various names for the almighty by the diverse groups who absolutely unquestionably know they are the exclusive chosen ones by the Creator. Whether it be the original or later day saints, prophets, buddas, shamans whatever they all teach us what they claim to be the the true way to the seven fold path to enlightenment, paradise, nirvana, heaven, afterlife, whatever. All different truths. Heck, I even know a zoroastrian lady who still adheres to her religion's truths despite her people being stamped/ stomped on for 2 millennia.
    So, what do you know?
    In the majority of your examples you cite widely held beliefs by entire populations. Rightly so, you point out the relation between truth and facts as they are/were known at the time. Yes I agree with you that as facts change so do truths but they are intertwined. When an individual claims "My truth" and their truth is not based upon facts then I see a problem. In my opinion, facts trump individual truths, and logically they must. If my truth is detached from reality then there is no truth, just my beliefs. In short, the truth is the truth, and it should be judged as either true or false based upon the facts at hand.


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  11. #10
    Senior Member Trail Woman's Avatar
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    Some facts may appear to contradict others....and are also only as credible as their source. Therefore a truth is only as credible as the source of the supposed facts it's based on.

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