Anybody messed with Electrolysis for cleaning parts and tools?
Close
         
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22
Like Tree26Likes

Thread: Anybody messed with Electrolysis for cleaning parts and tools?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Flathats's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    657

    Anybody messed with Electrolysis for cleaning parts and tools?

    Have a dink off day...was going to try it...Only problem is that it's 14 degrees...Was going to throw a handful of sidewalk melt in the bucket along with the baking soda...Am I going to create a deadly off gas?

    Sent from my LG-K425 using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Senior Member grewen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Armstrong BC
    Posts
    2,393
    what the hell is a "dink off day" ?
    Greg

    2019 honda cb500x
    2018 honda grom
    2018 suzuki dr200

  3. #3
    Senior Member Flathats's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    657
    Quote Originally Posted by grewen View Post
    what the hell is a "dink off day" ?
    Ain't gonna waste the propane and wood to heat the shop on a 16 degree day...going to take care of some minor in the house repairs and such...

    Sent from my LG-K425 using Tapatalk

  4. Remove Advertisements
    TW200Forum.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Senior Member stagewex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    New Rochelle, New York
    Posts
    1,773
    Electrolitic Stripping- Having to do with electrolysis.

    I have done quite a bit on antique firearms and old motorcycle parts.

    Using a power supply, water, baking soda & a sacrificial piece of steel. I don't know anything about adding sidewalk melt to the witches brew.
    What are you stripping?
    2008 Vespa 150"S" (Elec & Kick Start)
    2007 Ural Patrol (2WD, Elec & Kick Start)
    2006 Yamaha TW200 (Elec & Kick Start)
    1995 BMW K75 (Elec Start)
    1991 Honda XR250L (Kick Start Only)
    1986 Yamaha BW200ES (Elec & Kick Start)
    1969 BMW r60/2, US Model (Kick Start Only)

  6. #5
    Senior Member Flathats's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    657
    Quote Originally Posted by stagewex View Post
    Electrolitic Stripping- Having to do with electrolysis.

    I have done quite a bit on antique firearms and old motorcycle parts.

    Using a power supply, water, baking soda & a sacrificial piece of steel. I don't know anything about adding sidewalk melt to the witches brew.
    What are you stripping?
    An old rusty set of hoof nippers at the moment for a test...just something I thought might be handy to have in the arsenal around the ranch/farm...water is keeping active enough at 18 degrees to not freeze so far...

    Sent from my LG-K425 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Flathats; 12-06-2018 at 12:22 PM.

  7. #6
    Member Johnny Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Driftless Area of SW Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    97
    I've done it in the past with old coins using salt(ed) water and a DC power supply. It works reasonably well, but I haven't tried it with larger items.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Ski Pro 3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    El Dorado, California
    Posts
    802
    I have. I'll see if I can find my photo montage. In the meantime, here's what I recall;
    I started with a 5 gallon plastic bucket. I cut several sticks of rebar and drilled holes around the top lip of the bucket, then wired the rebar to the inside hanging down into the bucket, reaching the bottom. The wire was stranded copper without insulation. Found that stuff at an arts supply store used for hanging pictures and stuff.
    I filled the bucket 3/4 full with water and added Arm&Hammer Super Washing Soda. NOT BAKING SODA! Can't remember how much, a few hand fulls anyways. Mix it in well.
    Then I added TSP (Tri-Sodium Phosphate) Can't remember how much, but a handful or more maybe in 5 gallons. More later on as to why I use TSP....
    Then I built a rack out of PVC pipe and connectors to suspend my parts over and down into the bucket. No glue needed as the parts fit fairly tight and you may want to disassemble at a later time.
    Next I took a rusty part, kickstand I think, and suspended it into the solution by hanging it from the PVC using another length of bare copper stranded wire. I attached a battery charger, a Schumacher SEM-1562A-CA 1.5 Amp Speed Charge Battery Maintainer. Negative to the wire attaching the rebar and positive to the wire attaching the kick stand. At first, nothing, then I added a battery in parallel, observing polarity. Seems the charger was able to auto sense when a battery is attached or not before turning itself on. Once I could see by the LED's on the charger that it was cranking output, I disconnected the battery. Battery was a small 7ah thing used for alarm systems and such.
    After a few minutes, I could see bubbles forming on the kickstand and on the rebar. Oxygen on one, Hydrogen gas on the other although I do not recall which is which. I let run over night. Next day the kickstand was clean of rust. I use it now for various metal parts I want to clean like tools or such.
    NOTE!!!
    One of the best things about doing this with TSP is that the electrolytic action causes the phosphate in the TSP to bind with the iron in the metal part. Just like oxygen combines with iron to form rust in the form of ferrous oxide, FeO2, so does phosphate combine with iron, making ferrous phosphate. Or, in other words RUST! But not rust from oxygen, from phosphate. Rust protects the metal underneath, until it's too deep. In this case the phosphate rust protects the metal from oxygen rusting. The finish is a dull gray metal look and it will never EVER rust to red/brown from oxygen and it will never get any worse looking. Just about all other rust removers expose the metal to future rusting by exposure to air or water. This won't.
    Hard to do inside gas tanks as there must be a 'line-of-sight' between the anode and the cathode (positive and negative, part being derusted and rebar). I've hung a small piece of rebar into a tank using this method, with one charger lead on this bar and the other on the tank. Fill the tank with the solution described above and the inside of the tank will be derusted.
    HOWEVER
    I think there are a couple other methods I've found that work at least as well;
    1. Oxalic Acid. Available on Amazon 5 pound bag runs around $15. Mix with water. Safe to use; it's a main ingredient in food preservation. Taste it once mixed and see; will taste like lemon juice. Mild acid. The thing I like about this stuff is doing large parts. I've derusted whole motorcycle frames in my driveway making a frame from 2x12's, lining with 6mil plastic, filling with water and adding acid. Works good in low temps as well. The rust falls off and the water turns from clear to a milky yellow when dissolving the rust.
    2. Evapo-Rust. By far and away, the absolute best way to remove rust. It is expensive though, so only for small parts or for parts you can build a tank so you don't use a lot of it. Here's details;
    This stuff works like this; it has a molecular structure that attracts to rust, oxidized iron, FeO2, Ferris Oxide. (I mention all that because if you want to understand how this stuff works, you need to understand chemistry.) FeO2 has a shortage of electrons in it's valence shell. This stuff has an extra electron, causing it to bind with the rust. (see how I use different terms for the same thing; rust=FeO2?) Once it's bound, the rust is no longer bound to the Fe and falls away from the body of the part you are derusting. This falls to the bottom of the tank, jar, plastic bucket, rubbermaid container, what ever you are using to hold the part in the liquid. Once it falls off, there are other molecules in the Evapo-Rust which causes the first molecules to release from the FeO2 and be freed up to go get more rust off the parts. No need to stir, this will do it all itself. After a period of time, all the rust is removed and the chemical reaction stops. The part is so whistle clean, you won't believe it. I did several brake arm assemblies for motorcycle drum rear brakes where the spring, washers, threaded rod, etc was so rusted, the individual parts were indistinguishable from each other. After soaking in Evapo-Rust, I could loosen the nut on the threaded rod with my fingers. I built a tank using 1" PVC pipe and a cap on the end so I was able to conserve the amount of Evapo-Rust I needed to use. Simply wiping the product on the part won't due. It must soak for a while. Like TSP, Evapo-Rust leaves a finish on the part that will protect it from oxygen and future rusting. How long it lasts, I don't know since in almost every instance, I protected the raw metal with paint after, or else I wire brushed the metal back to shiny and removed the coating. I later used a clear spray on to prevent the part from future rusting.
    3. Vinegar. Apple cider vinegar works best. Not cheap at $7 a gallon or so. Works great inside stuff like gas tanks. However, once cleaned, the part has to be rinsed and dried almost immediately as it will rust very quickly. Like, in mere minutes. Dry the part, wipe with steel wool to remove the rust that will reform, then coat with paint of some sort. Gotta work relatively quick using this stuff.

    In these photos;
    First is a CT90 gas tank half done, showing rusted and derusted demarcation.
    Second shows CT90 front fender. Notice all the tiny bubbles venting off the rebar and the fender. One is oxygen, the other hydrogen gasses.
    Third shows CT90 swingarm and the most through photo since it shows the whole set up.

    NOTE: do this outdoor or well ventilated area because O2 gas and Hydrogen gas are very flammable. Together they are downright explosive.

    CT90project004_zps388351e1.JPG

    Attachment 187116

    CT90057_zpsce779601.JPG
    Last edited by Ski Pro 3; 12-06-2018 at 12:55 PM.
    Flathats, Darth and Dryden-Tdub like this.
    The bear slayer!

  9. #8
    Senior Member Flathats's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    657
    Quote Originally Posted by Ski Pro 3 View Post
    I have. I'll see if I can find my photo montage. In the meantime, here's what I recall;
    I started with a 5 gallon plastic bucket. I cut several sticks of rebar and drilled holes around the top lip of the bucket, then wired the rebar to the inside hanging down into the bucket, reaching the bottom. The wire was stranded copper without insulation. Found that stuff at an arts supply store used for hanging pictures and stuff.
    I filled the bucket 3/4 full with water and added Arm&Hammer Super Washing Soda. NOT BAKING SODA! Can't remember how much, a few hand fulls anyways. Mix it in well.
    Then I added TSP (Tri-Sodium Phosphate) Can't remember how much, but a handful or more maybe in 5 gallons. More later on as to why I use TSP....
    Then I built a rack out of PVC pipe and connectors to suspend my parts over and down into the bucket. No glue needed as the parts fit fairly tight and you may want to disassemble at a later time.
    Next I took a rusty part, kickstand I think, and suspended it into the solution by hanging it from the PVC using another length of bare copper stranded wire. I attached a battery charger, a Schumacher SEM-1562A-CA 1.5 Amp Speed Charge Battery Maintainer. Negative to the wire attaching the rebar and positive to the wire attaching the kick stand. At first, nothing, then I added a battery in parallel, observing polarity. Seems the charger was able to auto sense when a battery is attached or not before turning itself on. Once I could see by the LED's on the charger that it was cranking output, I disconnected the battery. Battery was a small 7ah thing used for alarm systems and such.
    After a few minutes, I could see bubbles forming on the kickstand and on the rebar. Oxygen on one, Hydrogen gas on the other although I do not recall which is which. I let run over night. Next day the kickstand was clean of rust. I use it now for various metal parts I want to clean like tools or such.
    NOTE!!!
    One of the best things about doing this with TSP is that the electrolytic action causes the phosphate in the TSP to bind with the iron in the metal part. Just like oxygen combines with iron to form rust in the form of ferrous oxide, FeO2, so does phosphate combine with iron, making ferrous phosphate. Or, in other words RUST! But not rust from oxygen, from phosphate. Rust protects the metal underneath, until it's too deep. In this case the phosphate rust protects the metal from oxygen rusting. The finish is a dull gray metal look and it will never EVER rust to red/brown from oxygen and it will never get any worse looking. Just about all other rust removers expose the metal to future rusting by exposure to air or water. This won't.
    HOWEVER
    I think there are a couple other methods I've found that work at least as well;
    1. Oxalic Acid. Available on Amazon 5 pound bag runs around $15. Mix with water. Safe to use; it's a main ingredient in food preservation. Taste it once mixed and see; will taste like lemon juice. Mild acid. The thing I like about this stuff is doing large parts. I've derusted whole motorcycle frames in my driveway making a frame from 2x12's, lining with 6mil plastic, filling with water and adding acid. Works good in low temps as well. The rust falls off and the water turns from clear to a milky yellow when dissolving the rust.
    2. Evapo-Rust. By far and away, the absolute best way to remove rust. It is expensive though, so only for small parts or for parts you can build a tank so you don't use a lot of it. Here's details;
    This stuff works like this; it has a molecular structure that attracts to rust, oxidized iron, FeO2, Ferris Oxide. (I mention all that because if you want to understand how this stuff works, you need to understand chemistry.) FeO2 has a shortage of electrons in it's valence shell. This stuff has an extra electron, causing it to bind with the rust. (see how I use different terms for the same thing; rust=FeO2?) Once it's bound, the rust is no longer bound to the Fe and falls away from the body of the part you are derusting. This falls to the bottom of the tank, jar, plastic bucket, rubbermaid container, what ever you are using to hold the part in the liquid. Once it falls off, there are other molecules in the Evapo-Rust which causes the first molecules to release from the FeO2 and be freed up to go get more rust off the parts. No need to stir, this will do it all itself. After a period of time, all the rust is removed and the chemical reaction stops. The part is so whistle clean, you won't believe it. I did several brake arm assemblies for motorcycle drum rear brakes where the spring, washers, threaded rod, etc was so rusted, the individual parts were indistinguishable from each other. After soaking in Evapo-Rust, I could loosen the nut on the threaded rod with my fingers. I built a tank using 1" PVC pipe and a cap on the end so I was able to conserve the amount of Evapo-Rust I needed to use. Simply wiping the product on the part won't due. It must soak for a while. Like TSP, Evapo-Rust leaves a finish on the part that will protect it from oxygen and future rusting. How long it lasts, I don't know since in almost every instance, I protected the raw metal with paint after, or else I wire brushed the metal back to shiny and removed the coating. I later used a clear spray on to prevent the part from future rusting.
    3. Vinegar. Apple cider vinegar works best. Not cheap at $7 a gallon or so. Works great inside stuff like gas tanks. However, once cleaned, the part has to be rinsed and dried almost immediately as it will rust very quickly. Like, in mere minutes. Dry the part, wipe with steel wool to remove the rust that will reform, then coat with paint of some sort. Gotta work relatively quick using this stuff.
    Very good read Ski Pro!!!!

    As I mentioned before, just something else to add to the arsenal around here...A ranch/farm produces rusty stuff...Plus I like to recycle stuff...for crafty kind of things...

    Sent from my LG-K425 using Tapatalk

  10. #9
    Senior Member Flathats's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    657
    Cowboy Wok... recycled disc blade...

    Sent from my LG-K425 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Flathats; 12-06-2018 at 12:59 PM.
    Darth and Dryden-Tdub like this.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Darth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Timbercreek Canyon, Texas
    Posts
    1,781
    Hey, Ski...excellent write up!
    This will be very useful info, I have tons of old tools I would like to reclaim. Not to use, but to produce better looking "barn art".
    Thanks very much for your time in posting this!

    Question:
    In the options where the parts are hung by stranded copper wires, does it matter if the parts are touching?
    If it does NOT matter, would it work to use only a few wires for many parts?
    I don't think this would work but wanted to ask.
    "Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death."
    - Hunter S. Thompson

    “It’s more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow”.

    "The less horsepower a motorcycle has, the more it can teach you.” - Ben Bostrom

    And though a mountain may rise up and smack the livin' shit outta me,
    and wad up my bike somethin' awful...
    Still, I rise!
    (With apologies to Maya Angelou)


    "Give a Damn"
    - C. M. Howe, Jr.

    Hidden Content

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Sponosred Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Added Some Wheel and Tire Tools to the Shop Today
    By JerseyJeeper in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 07-03-2018, 08:14 AM
  2. Aftermarket carb parts and new tools
    By Ken in forum Technical Help
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-13-2017, 02:57 PM
  3. TOOLS-Given, Found, Bought, and retired
    By BillPacific in forum Off-Topic
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 03-27-2016, 05:22 AM
  4. Bargin Beer....AKA: Somebody Messed Up!
    By Hoot Gibson in forum Off-Topic
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-07-2014, 06:21 PM
  5. Messed up front sprocket install need help
    By 1RobAusdemore in forum Technical Help
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 07-30-2014, 07:17 PM