New, Electric, Off-road Pickup Trucks: Winners and Losers are Clear
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Thread: New, Electric, Off-road Pickup Trucks: Winners and Losers are Clear

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    Senior Member kj7687's Avatar
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    New, Electric, Off-road Pickup Trucks: Winners and Losers are Clear

    The Rivian R1T and the Bollinger B1. It seems abundantly clear which one of these two options is a serious piece of near-future technology that has real potential to take the market by storm, and which one is destined to be nothing more than the creator's personal artistic vision, with little or no commercial success.

    Rivian understands the market and knows hows to appeal to its target audience. They have real, serious financial backing. They have something that looks immensely better (although personally, I don't mind the B1's rugged ugliness, many will be turned away by it). Then there is the range and horsepower/performance -- both of which are far superior in the R1T. Also, the R1T has better/more cleverly designed and unique, sensible, practical features that the average weekend warrior will appreciate (like the upswept rear bumper for better departure angle, and the little "seat" on the side of the truck for taking off your moto boots after a ride). And the price...Bollinger is asking $125,000 for the B1: enough said! Rivian clearly has some strong marketing gurus who know how to create the right brand image and social presence needed for broad commercial success in the automotive market, right from the get-go.

    Anyway, I could go on, but this is my take on Bollinger vs. Rivian. It's a little unfortunate for Bollinger, as I don't really have anything against the company. The B1, as a standalone, is actually pretty cool, but it will never be able to compete with Rivian's product and image. And Rivian has the financing to really get the ball rolling large-scale, meaning quick market-share acquisition and early economy-of-scale benefits.

    As much as I love a good old American V8, I am excited for the future of Rivian. If I had some extra cash, I might invest in this company (after a lot more research, of course...). I think that could net some serious ROI in the long term.

    Anyway, here are videos of the two product offerings.

    ***Rivian:



    ***Bollinger:

    Last edited by kj7687; 11-04-2019 at 03:48 AM.
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    Senior Member Apolloha's Avatar
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    I guess its good someone is working on the next thing. I just don't get the electric thing...yet. When we run out of oil, I will start looking at electric. Hopefully then, there will be super quick charging. That is really my only concern. Environmentally it's a wash and maybe worse. Nice trucks though.
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    Senior Member kj7687's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apolloha View Post
    I guess its good someone is working on the next thing. I just don't get the electric thing...yet. When we run out of oil, I will start looking at electric. Hopefully then, there will be super quick charging. That is really my only concern. Environmentally it's a wash and maybe worse. Nice trucks though.
    Yea, as far as the environment, you're right (although undoubtedly environmental friendliness will be a marketing ploy -- either explicitly or implicitly: they aren't going to say "no, we aren't better for the environment" LOL). I can imagine drop-pad charging technology (like for cell phones) on a grand nationwide infrastructure scale -- eventually -- for cars and trucks. Who knows
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    Senior Member elime's Avatar
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    Tesla is supposed to come out with their pickup truck in the very near future. I don't think the first version is off road however it is all wheel drive. On road it is said it will compete with the F-150 for hauling and it is suppose to out perform the Porsche 911. Range is around 400 to 500 mile. Starting price around $50K. Charging time at a Tesla Super Charger is something like 30 minutes -- that is from 0 to 80% -- at least that is what I remember reading.

    Locally I see a lot of Tesla cars driving around. Personally I think there is a very strong "snob appeal" to account for this but I could be wrong. I have never ridden in one.
    Long live the internal combustion engine!

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    Senior Member FIRE UP's Avatar
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    Well,
    I didn't look at the video so, I could be talking out of context here. But, while the "electric" thing is *maybe* a way to go in the future, (even though some of it's been around for a while now) I almost NEVER, EVER see any accompanying videos/write ups/explanations/analyzations/cost factors/and more pertaining to CHARGING OF ANY OF ELECTRIC MOTORIZED VEHICLES. That is, we've seen many, many ads for electric vehicles over the years but, I've never seen anyone talk or really get down to the nuts and bolts (or, nuts and VOLTS) of what it takes and or costs, to re-charge all of these electric vehicles/trucks/motorcycles/motorhomes and more.

    An example. We have a motorhome. It's a diesel coach. It has four, 6 volt golf cart batteries that are tied together in such a manor that, the power emitted from them is 12 volts. And, as many of you know, 12V is what runs about 98% of your inside operations of the motorhome. Things like lights, water pump, furnace, control boards for absorption refrigerators, CO detectors, and a few other things. Well, after a while of camping, those batteries will run down, it's a given. So, you (we) need to RE-CHARGE them. In our coach, we have what's called an INVERTER/CHARGER. It's a 2000 watt, Magnum inverter/charger. The inverter side is for converting that 12VDC house battery power, to 120VAC power for anything that needs that kind of electricity. But, the CHARGER is a three stage battery charger. In that, when the batteries are really low, it will kick in and charge them at a rate of around 55 amps for a given amount of time.
    When the charging sensor in that Inverter/Charger senses that the high amperage rate of charging is no longer needed, it will drop the charge rate to around 15 amps or so. It will do that for a given amount of time, 'till the charging sensor feels the batteries are topped off. Then, it will drop the charge rate again, to a "trickle" charge or another words, a maintenance charge just to maintain them at peak voltage.

    Now, where does the "Inverter/Charger" get its power to do all this you might ask? Well, there's two sources. One is, we have an on-board generator that supplies 120VAC to that inverter/charger so it can do its job of charging the batteries. The second source is plugging the coach into what's called "Shore power". And that is either at home, or a camp spot/RV park that has hook-ups that we can plug into. But, and here's the kicker, when those batteries are low in power, as stated earlier, that inverter/charger can put out as much as 55 amps to kick those batteries back up to a useful level. Well, when you're putting out 55 amps, you are using a ton of amps just for that operation. And, when plugged into shore power, you're demanding some high amperage from your electrical supplier. THAT COST'S MONEY!

    Sorry for the long rant but, I'm simply comparing what it takes to bring our motorhome 6V batteries back up to a useful state. I have never analyzed what it actually costs to do that. I just know it's not cheap. So, what does it actually cost, to bring one single vehicle, ANY ELECTRIC vehicle, from a low state of charge, to a fully charged unit, ready for service? Then, multiply that by literally thousands and thousands of folks plugged in, all over the nation, USING ELECTRICITY to recharge their electric vehicles. NO ONE, on any TV program, that we've ever seen, has addressed this. Folks, nothing is free in this great country of ours. It costs to recharge these potential thousands and thousands of vehicles/trucks/motorcycles etc. But, no one ever talks about that. They simply try and sell the "Green" factor of electric vs oil burning. Hmmmmm.
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    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    Don't forget that all these electric vehicles are fairly energy inefficient by the time you figure in energy costs of creating the necessary power generation infrastructure for burning fossil fuels or solar/wind power generation, in-efficiencies of said power generation, transmission losses over distances from remote energy generation to charging station, inefficiencies in the actual charging process, etc. Fortunately the electric motors and speed controllers in the cars are fairly efficient but the cumulative inefficiencies really add up.
    Electric vehicles do shift the environmental cost elsewhere from one's tailpipe which allows us to feel smug, so they are popular with consumers.
    They certainly are going to make a lot of money for some companies, especially with some of the true cost being borne by tax-payers or raising the national debt ceiling.
    If the electric vehicle trend becomes popular or mandated then we have to get comfortable with the environmental cost of seriously ramping up mining for the massive projected demand for more transmission lines with their associated copper and steel components, petrochemicals too. We will have an increasing demand for petrochemicals for all the polymers through-out the electric vehicle/ power supply sector yet with less demand for the volatiles that constitute gasoline our cracking plants will need re-vamping or re-placement. Less income from reduced gasoline & diesel sales will make all those polymers more expensive too unless soy bean based polymer production becomes cost competitive while becoming acceptable substitutes..
    Think it through folks, the torque is seductive but these things are not going to slow down the global environmental degradation. Besides, any sacrifices the politicians say we Americans should make are meaningless unless there is global conformity.
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    Senior Member elime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIRE UP View Post


    So, what does it actually cost, to bring one single vehicle, ANY ELECTRIC vehicle, from a low state of charge, to a fully charged unit, ready for service?
    This guy does a nice job explaining many different things. He also owns a Tesla and does reports on it and some are not so nice -- like the video of the cost of hitting a pot hole with his Tesla.

    As for the cost of electricity to charge a Tesla, watch his video. I think its pretty good.

    Long live the internal combustion engine!

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    Senior Member TW_in_BC's Avatar
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    Typically, the batteries used in electric vehicles are not the same lead-acid types that are your golf-cart batteries; the weight of those wouldn't be conducive to an efficient electric vehicle.
    As far as I know...some of the electric vehicles are powered by Lithium cells which (if you have one in your bike) are super light-weight.

    In regards to charging currents and times...there is no such thing as perpetual motion; whatever you put out has to be put back in (the law of conservation of energy) so if you've used up 500 kW (voltage x current) to get to your destination...you'll need to replace 500 kW into your batteries to bring them back to full charge.
    Fortunately...there are many ways to obtain electrical energy. Here in Canada, most of ours is produced by hydro-electric dams and run-of-river projects, but there's also solar, wind and geo-thermal methods of creating the energy needed to recharge.
    In the example of your motorhome, there are many RV's that have photo-voltaic panels mounted on the roofs...we have a portable one that I simply toss up there once we're parked...so the carbon footprint of those is only relative to their manufacturing process. Once built, they provide clean energy for up to 25 years. I read an article about the payback on solar panels and the point at which they become carbon neutral, but I don't remember what the time-frame is...could Google it I guess.

    One thing that I will say...and this is FOR THE RECORD...is that once we "all" own electric vehicles, watch for the price of electricity to follow the same trend as gas prices, and for the same lame reasons....
    Last edited by TW_in_BC; 11-09-2019 at 11:36 AM.
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    Senior Member stagewex's Avatar
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    Both are pretty cool. The Rivian, take away whether it is electric or gas doesn't make sense as a 'work truck". But as a fun/recreational vehicle it's smooth. Kinda the same reason that when I traded-in my 2 door Wrangler I just sat in the Gladiator and with the size of the bed... it just didn't make sense to me. And believe me, I had been waiting for years for that pick-up to come out from Jeep.

    Bollinger, never heard of it until reading about it here. Commercially that looks like it could be adapted to many industries, just can't put my finger of which (utility company, drilling rig company, airplane propellor salesman, haha, etc.).

    I like both.
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    Last edited by jeepster09; 11-09-2019 at 12:22 PM.
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