What are my options for Fuel Injected Dual Sports under 400cc?
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Thread: What are my options for Fuel Injected Dual Sports under 400cc?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Little Brute's Avatar
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    What are my options for Fuel Injected Dual Sports under 400cc?

    Researching my options for upgrading to a larger Dual Sport bike with Fuel Injection (FI) and wondering what my choices are. The Yamaha WR250R (2008?-2015) was on my radar prior to purchasing the TW200 a few months back, but I couldn’t find a reasonably priced one. Now that I’ve tested the waters for the first time in about 30 years with the TW200 I’m ready to upgrade to a full size FI Dual Sport bike under 400cc.

    One friend I recently rode with has a CA licensed Husky 310 FI bike that was really nice, but the seat was awful. I do know the KTM 350 is available licensed in CA, but at great expense. Everyone I know likes their KTM 250-350 dirt bikes, but none have CA licensed KTM’s. Also I’m aware Honda (years?) has a 250 FI bike, but a friend bought one the first year they came out and didn’t like it’s power or suspension.

    So the FI bikes that I am aware of in order of affordability are the Honda 250, Yamaha WR250R, Husky 310 and KTM 350. Are there other new FI Dual Sport bikes under 400cc? What are my used “FI” Dual Sport options?
    TW200 "Little Brute" is gone - Waiting to see what 2016 brings (WR250R/CRF250 RALLY/KTM390/Africa Twin or E-bicycle?)

  2. #2
    Senior Member kj7687's Avatar
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    Are you considering only used bikes, or possibly new? The KTM and Husqvarna 350 dual sports (same bike really) are like ten grand new, and even used will run you several thousand.

    I have been advising everyone I talk to about this stuff to stay away from the Honda CRF 250L because they have a poorly designed cam chain tensioner that often fails. Honda, having known about the problem since 2013, hasn't fixed it or issued a recall. I love Honda for the most part, but that kind of crap really irks me. If not for that, I really like the CRF, even though it is on a somewhat lower level in terms of performance. On a related note, I've written about this cam chain tensioner so many times in similar threads to this, that I'd be willing to BET that Honda has lost a few thousand dollars because of me lol! EDIT: This thread now shows up on the first page of results from a Google search for "fuel injected dual sports". Get on the ball with this thing, Honda!

    *Yamaha WR250R: I would say this is the best sub-400cc FI dual sport available right now. Considerably more power and much better suspension than the in-class competitors (Japanese 250-ish bikes). Reliable and durable, low maintenance motor (which is why I'd pick one over a KTM 350) . Not KTM-light, but reasonably light compared to its Japanese competitors, and it carries its weight better than some of the others (better mass centralization).

    *Yamaha XT250: Fuel injected since 2013. Air cooled 5 speed with power and torque somewhere between the TW and WR250R . A little over $5,000 new. Soft, budget suspension, but it's probably not too bad if you're like 150 pounds or less. A little ligher than the WR/slightly heavier than the TW. Much lower seat height than any of the other FI dual sports. From the research I've done, it should be fairly reliable and reasonably durable. I'm glad that someone offers a low seat, fuel injected dual sport option for shorter people. (EDIT [10/23/2015]: - I bought one of these ;D Here is my review of this model: https://tw200forum.com/forum/other-bi...50-review.html )

    *Husqvarna TE310: No longer available new. I know a guy who bought one recently and was having major issues with the fueling, for what that's worth. Personally I'd stay away from this one.

    *KTM/Husqvarna 350: Hands down best FI dual sport money can buy from any manufacturer, from a PERFORMANCE perspective (meaning off road capability but also SPEED, as in "Ready to Race"...). Much lighter than pretty much any other dual sport, with much higher spec suspension and other components, and much more power. Don't buy one unless you enjoy working on your bike a lot. The WR250R should last at least 10 or 15 thousand miles longer and require much less maintenance during that time.

    *KLX 250S is fuel injected in European markets. If you wait around a little, there is a slim chance they'll bring that to the U.S. for the 2016 model. Sadly, I still would not personally recommend this because they are also known for crappy cam chain tensioners that go bad and fail. Performance wise, it's pretty nice, but not quite on par with the Yamaha in that department.

    *Beta RS dual sports: they have offered several different motor sizes over the past few years, from 350 to 520 IIRC. Currently 430 and 500. Right now they are carbureted... They just recently introduced their first FI system in their 350 off road-only bike. Like with the KLX, there is a slight chance they'll put their FI on their dual sports if you wait a bit for the 2016 models. These dual sports are also very light and very high performing, absolutely top notch dual sports. Personally I'd have one over the KTM's any day.

    *AJP PR5R: AJP motors has been around for quite a few years, and in the U.S. market for the past few. Right now their U.S. offerings are not street legal. I communicated with an AJP rep a few months ago and he informed me that it was likely they would be offering their PR5 as a 50 state legal model for 2016. Another reason you might consider waiting a few months, if you are considering purchasing new. This would be my number one choice for a kick ass trail/enduro bike from a performance perspective. It's very light, has VERY good mass centralization, excellent suspension, fuel injection, and similar power and torque to the WR250R. I'm not entirely sure about the reliability and ease of maintenance on these machines, but from what I've seen of them I think it should be at least decent. Probably less high maintenance and more durable than the KTM's. The dirt bike version is about $6,500. I'm guessing the dual sport version will be a few hundred more than that when it comes out.

    *Honda Grom Scrambler (concept): This is another bike in that "might be available in the near future" category. The regular Honda Grom has been available for long enough now to prove itself as a legitimate mini bike. The Honda Grom Scrambler is a 125cc mini-dual sport/scrambler concept...that would make a fantastic around-town, first bike/fun bike type of "dual sport". Great fuel economy, an amazingly low entry price (for the currently available, standard Grom), a very low seat height, superb ease of use, and awesome aesthetics would make this a perfect choice for anyone on a small budget who doesn't need to go on the highway. http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/wp-con...oncept_Two.jpg .


    *Then there's this... http://www.cscmotorcycles.com/product-p/zrx3-b.htm . I've done a fair bit of research into these as well. From what I can tell, it's probably okay in terms of reliability. I'm still somewhat skeptical, but it should be noted that the same basic motor powers that AJP. I think it would work out alright. This particular model is very heavy for a 250 dual sport, and pretty street-oriented. And no, that motor does NOT produce 30 foot pounds of torque...shame on them for having a damn typo on their web site, especially on something so important as engine performance. That REALLY doesn't look good IMO. EDIT: I visited the page on 10/02/2015; as of this date, the page shows the correct value for the engine's torque output.

    *BMW G450X: Sadly BMW discontinued this bike. It would have required significant changes to be viable IMO. Not really a good bike, but since you asked...it is technically an option.


    Can't really think of anything else off the top of my head, certainly nothing major that isn't from some tiny knock off company or whatever. I really wish we had more options. I hope Honda will give us a 300+ FI dual sport (with a non-POS tensioner!), and I'd really like to see an FI, six speed DRZ (maybe 450). Also a WR450R would be nice...
    Last edited by kj7687; 10-23-2015 at 02:24 PM.
    KJ, just KJ, ok.


    Current rides:
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    Past rides: 2015 Yamaha XT 250, 1997 Suzuki DR 200, 2007 Honda Ruckus, 2007 Yamaha TW 200, 2007 Kawasaki Ninja 500, 2009 Kawasaki KLX331S; 1994 GMC Sierra 1500, 1987 Nissan Pathfinder, 1992 Acura Integra, 1986 Honda CRX, 1989 Jeep Cherokee, 1994 Chevrolet Astro Van, 1979 Volkswagen Rabbit, 1984 Jeep Cherokee

  3. #3
    Senior Member Little Brute's Avatar
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    kj6787 - Thank you very much for that comprehensive run down. I'll probably end up buying used, but will definitely watch the news for 2016 FI models. A fuel injected DRZ 400 has my interest. I'll check those models you mentioned that I wasn't aware of. I see you are local SoCal, so you can understand my desire for FI with riding areas like Death Valley to the top of the Eastern Sierra's that can be covered all in one day. Again, thank you.

    Always a Honda lover in the past. I've heard Honda's are now made in China, not Japan; but haven't confirmed that (Told Yamaha's are still made in Japan). Doesn't account for a bad part design though... (Kind of hard to avoid Chinese parts on anything these days. I noticed a gold China sticker fell of my TW200 carb when I was changing the float bowl gasket. It was way underneith and when it fell to the ground I thought it was a carb part at first).

    The WR250R stays at the top of my FI list because of the suspension and apparent reliability. A big plus is that they have been around several years now, so good used ones are available now and then at reasonable prices. I looked at a 2015 at the dealer yesterday. The sales guy told me it was $7,650-ish. I hate to buy new if I'm not absolutely sure it is something I will be keeping for many years.

    Are there changes in the WR250R since the production started in I think 2008?
    Last edited by Little Brute; 06-11-2015 at 09:29 AM.
    TW200 "Little Brute" is gone - Waiting to see what 2016 brings (WR250R/CRF250 RALLY/KTM390/Africa Twin or E-bicycle?)

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    Senior Member arbolmano's Avatar
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    Being your in SoCal you really should check out the CSC Cyclone mentioned in earlier post. Price and
    warranty are unequaled. China products are not what they used to be. Not only some Hondas are made there but also BMW
    uses China to manufacture stuff, others as well. The money saved could be used to modify to your standards.
    Tonto on the "Left Coast"
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  6. #5
    Senior Member Little Brute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arbolmano View Post
    Being your in SoCal you really should check out the CSC Cyclone mentioned in earlier post. Price and
    warranty are unequaled. China products are not what they used to be. Not only some Hondas are made there but also BMW
    uses China to manufacture stuff, others as well. The money saved could be used to modify to your standards.
    My biggest concerns about this bike is the likely ZERO resale value. One of the GREAT things about the T-Dub.
    TW200 "Little Brute" is gone - Waiting to see what 2016 brings (WR250R/CRF250 RALLY/KTM390/Africa Twin or E-bicycle?)

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    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    Is not the 2015 Beta 390 RS Fuel Injected? Need to check the specs. Awesome bike irregardless in my opinion. They supposedly do know their carburetors. This is the scoot I would chose for the TAT if it was suitably equipped for light adventuring with motel overnighting.
    .th-2.jpeg2015 BETA RS 390 Reviews, Prices, and Specs - Motorcycle.com
    2003 TW200 "Betty Boop"
    2006 TW200 "Nibbler", a.k.a. “Mr.Gizmo"
    Hidden Content All Things Considered I’ld Rather Be Motorcycling

  8. #7
    Senior Member DonBenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Brute View Post
    My biggest concerns about this bike is the likely ZERO resale value. One of the GREAT things about the T-Dub.
    Yeah, but at what they're selling it for who cares? If it holds together and gets you where you want to go for just 2 years, I'd call that money well spent even if you gave the thing away afterwards.

    I sat on an RX3 Cyclone at the Overland Expo. There are certainly a few components that seem really chintzy (and in the case of the tiny hard cases-virtually useless) but overall as a package the bike seemed pretty solid. The ergos and fit for my 5'8" frame were nearly perfect, far more comfortable and realistic than any of the Orange bikes in the next stall down.

    I think the RX3 is probably more comparable to the XT250 than any of the other bikes KJ listed. Neither bike has the aftermarket that the TW does, but the RX3 does come with a few of the things that you would want to add to the XT for ADV Touring duty.

    If I was in the market for a new bike in that class right now, I would be taking a long hard look at the RX3. Probably half the overall performance of the WR at around half the price, but a better value if it meets your needs. I love the idea of a WR, but I don't think I would like owning one due to the seat height.
    Smitty Blackstone likes this.
    2011 TW200 - Sold - after 9700 miles and 1,000,000 smiles. So long Tee Dub!
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  9. #8
    Senior Member ejfranz's Avatar
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    The WR has not changed from 2009 on.
    The 2008 had a fuel pump issue that was covered under warranty. In real hot conditions it could develop a vapour lock.
    If you find a 2008, check that the fuel pump has been fixed.
    There are also many after market part available. I just changed the seat, handle bars and gearing on mine.
    As you can see from my sig, my China bike is broken. The steel used is worse than that of the 70s Japanese bike.
    Every time I worked on a new area of the bike, I needed to replace the bolts as they stretch every time they are torqued.
    On the Coos area dunes, the rear hub of the bike blew apart and the chain went through the case.

    Have you checked out the Ossa Explorer? It is a 2 stroke fuel injected hybrid trials - enduro bike that are street legal in Europe.
    2001 TW200 sporting a MT43 up front. Duro has gone to a good home. 2015 VStrom XT, 1996 DT 200, Broken 2010 Xingue 400 XY. 2009 WR250r now shared with my son.

  10. #9
    Senior Member kj7687's Avatar
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    No problem Little Brute. Any time! There is a lot of rumor going around about new Hondas being made in China. Although that is incorrect as far as I know, many of their new bikes are being built in factories in Thailand. I guess this is the only way they can come up with new designs and still sell them at "affordable" prices. Personally I'd rather pay a little more for a better bike. But I think quality has more to do with corporate quality control procedures than where they are actually built. I mean at the end of the day, those factories in Thailand are still owned and operated by Honda Corporation. I think many oligopolyc companies like that are going global as far as production goes. Modern Fords, for example, are using many parts from China, Mexico, etc. That being said, from what I've seen, Honda's quality does seem to have gone down hill a little over the past few years. I don't think it's become junk by any means (generally speaking), but just not quite at the level it was in the 90's and early 2000's.

    Yea an updated, FI DRZ would be sweet indeed. To be fair to the China bikes, I think there are definitely different levels of quality among Chinese manufacturers. As Arbolmano pointed out, I think that at least some Chinese companies have made significant improvements in quality over recent years. From what I know (which certainly isn't everything...), Zongshen seems to be at the top of the Chinese companies in terms of quality. I used to hate all the Chinese automotive companies, but I think today I might consider giving one of them a chance. As someone on this forum once put it, Japanese bikes and cars used to be viewed by the average American in much the same way - "Jap crap"... Today, I would guess that the average American is probably accepting and even in admiration of typical Japanese vehicles.

    I think the WRR is a really great bike and that you really can't go wrong there. And I know what you mean about the FI. It's nice to never have to worry about adjusting air/fuel screws, change jets, clean out a gummed up carb, etc. Let us know on the forum what bike you end up getting; maybe we can hook up for a dual sport ride some time (being that your'e also in Socal)



    Fred: The Beta 430 and 500 dual sports are still carbureted. Beta has been staying old school with that. You're right that they know their carbs though. From what I've read about them, those Betas have pretty spot on fueling - among the best in the carburetor world. As for the 390 RS, I'm not even sure what the hell the deal is with that bike. Because when they first introduced the 2015's, they announced that there would be a 390, 430, and 500. But for a long time, they haven't shown the 390 on their web site. So I don't know if they discontinued it or what.
    Last edited by kj7687; 06-20-2015 at 02:29 PM.
    KJ, just KJ, ok.


    Current rides:
    2004 GMC Sierra 1500, 1999 Toyota 4Runner

    Past rides: 2015 Yamaha XT 250, 1997 Suzuki DR 200, 2007 Honda Ruckus, 2007 Yamaha TW 200, 2007 Kawasaki Ninja 500, 2009 Kawasaki KLX331S; 1994 GMC Sierra 1500, 1987 Nissan Pathfinder, 1992 Acura Integra, 1986 Honda CRX, 1989 Jeep Cherokee, 1994 Chevrolet Astro Van, 1979 Volkswagen Rabbit, 1984 Jeep Cherokee

  11. #10
    Senior Member Little Brute's Avatar
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    Odd that the Beta didn't list fuel delivery type in their specs on that link...

    Hey, what's the story on the BMW G450X?



    I know many here have larger BMW bikes and this one is larger than my 400cc stated limit. I wasn't even aware BMW ever made a 450 FI dual sport. Spec wise it's likely heavier than the WR250R, but it sure looks good! What years?
    TW200 "Little Brute" is gone - Waiting to see what 2016 brings (WR250R/CRF250 RALLY/KTM390/Africa Twin or E-bicycle?)

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