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Van Van 200

14K views 29 replies 20 participants last post by  arbolmano 
#1 · (Edited)
I looked seriously at TW, even made an offer on a couple used ones but didn't get them. I finally decided to purchase new and the dealer had TW's and the VV's in stock. After trying both it looked like the VV would be a better bike for me as I do little trail or off road riding but lots of county roads and farm two tracks. So far after 400 miles of riding this winter I think I made the right decision.

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#2 ·
Looks nice!! Congratulations!! :icon_thumleft:
 
#4 ·
Cool!
Wish my TW had the EFI & rear disc...
 
#13 · (Edited)
Back quite a while ago, I posted a thread asking WHY the T-dub does not have fuel injection. Well, a large percentage of answerers came back with, "I'm glad it's not fuel injected, can't work on it". Or, some also stated: "If they (Yamaha) had to go to fuel injection, they'd PROBABLY drop the TW". Well, to me, those two points don't have a lot of merit. One, there's a few reasons manufacturers have gone to FI for quite a while. One, it's CONSIDERABLY MORE EFFICIENT, two, since FI's been around for decades, and, has been more and more improved over the years, those systems compensate anything and everything, including attitude Hills/grades/steepness, and, altitude, as in running at sea level and, 10,000' in the mountains with no input or alteration from the owner.

There's a tiny computer that runs the whole thing and, also a some form of a small fuel pump that supplies what's needed for a small engine. And because they've been around for such a long time, and again, have been more and more improved, the need for anyone to WORK on them, has dropped to almost nothing. I've had multiple fuel injected vehicles over the years and as of yet, not one of them has ever failed in the fuel injection system. The two Goldwing's I've had, and one I still do, have FI and without a doubt, If my finger comes close to the start button, IT'S RUNNING! And, to those that think or, are under the assumption that Yamaha would drop the T-dub if it was forced to go FI on it, while I'm not an engineer or bean counter for Yamaha, I doubt very seriously that Yamaha would drop that little bike, JUST BECAUSE it was either forced or, decided it was a better move, to go to FI. Yamaha, like Honda, Suzuki, Harley, BMW, and any other M/C maker, has dabbled in FI for years with other models.

For them to adapt to a small version of its already present FI system, would be child's play. Not exactly sure why they haven't but, I supposed it's because they haven't been forced to by EPA or any other government entity or, their system has been working so far, so why change it? But, for those have been accustomed to FI on motorcycles for a while, you know how well it works, how well it handles any form of weather, altitude, attitude, cold and hot starts, plugs last longer, and more.

For the Suzuki to go FI on the Vanvan, was a smart move. Not exactly sure why they ceased to sell them after only a year or two or three. Probably 'cause there just wasn't that much call for it vs the following of the T-dub. But, the Dub's got a rep for handling pretty decent off roading as well as street cruising. Where as, the Vanvan, as has been stated, *looks* to be way more suited for street ops. If one goes to YouTube and looks up some test drives on the Vanvan, it appears that the bike moves out pretty good. But, it appears the same for the test drives on the Dub.

So, back to the original plot here. I've never ridden a Vanvan, and, in fact I was pursuing one prior to purchasing the Dub I have. But, price was prohibitive due to there were no used ones on the market, at the time I was looking and, $5,500 Out The Door was just too much for me, due to the fact that it was gonna be a part time, small, cruise around bike anyways. So, the used Dub I purchased has sufficed quite well and, I've been quite happy with it.
Scott
 
#5 ·
Cool!
Wish my TW had the EFI...
 
#7 ·
Looks nice. And you found the bike that serves your needs best which is even nicer.
Ride Safe and Happy.
 
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#9 ·
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#10 ·
I couldn’t help myself and ante’d up for the VV. After care looking, I believe it to be a serious upgrade from the beloved TW, or maybe the VV was first? VV 125 big in SE Asia. But the big things I always wanted for TW are on the VV. Fuel injection, longer swingarm, more comfy seat, large capacity charging system, oil cooler w thermostat, round headlight, bearings on the camshaft, and more. It has the same size wonderful tires as TW but room for a larger one on rear. The VV could stand some stiffer forks. One nice thing is VV counter shaft has not the crazy outer bearing thus changing sprockets is much easier. Power? Well VV rated higher, I’ve not tested it. Here in the daze of ethanol fuel, fuel injection is pretty much a must have for trouble free operation.
For me, I’d prefer to ride than work on my ride.
 
#15 ·
I believe, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, that emissions, at least for US is a corporate/manufacturer average. So that probably means that the T-Dub, at least in the US can go on carbureted until someone changes the rules. With that said, I doubt we would see a change to FI as long as the bike sells well as is and it sure seems to. While I have FI bikes and marvel at their mostly perfect fueling right out of the box, there is a certain beauty to a gravity fed carburetor that can be tweaked with less than $50.00 worth of brass jets. I don't know about the rest of you but the older I get, the simpler I like things so if it never gets updated its ok with me. I guess it would be easy enough for Yamaha to build a TW with the XT250 FI motor in it. That seems like it would be a logical progression. I think the Van Van just was not as off road friendly off the showroom floor. I could have gotten a great deal on a VV but got a 2019 TW instead and it cost me more.
 
#16 ·
Fuel injection far more reliable than carbs and don’t require l”tweaking” That’s just a simple fact. Some folks like to fuss on theys rides. Some prefer to ride. Do Luddites also install points ignition systems? Now there’s something you can fix on the trail. Can’t fix your electronic ignition. And my goodness, the hours a Luddite could spend maintaining the perfect timing. Makes no sense to me but to each thier own. I have actually been paid to restore points ignition on Airheads. Both times I also got paid later to re install electronic ignition. Really not that satisfying was the response.
 
#20 ·
I have had a few, maybe a handful, electronic ignitions simply crap out on me. I'd certainly like to have points on my DR - they aren't a problem if you can work on them...successfully. The ones who constantly fiddle with stuff, instead of just riding, may not fully understand what they're doing; I know because I fiddled too until I understood what was actually going on. Once I have my carbed bikes set up I'm done fiddling or even tweaking (with the exception of tightening up a pilot screw to deal with much higher elevation). Once my bikes with points or a mag are set up, I'm done with those too. They are much easier to diagnose rather than having to troubleshoot every other electrical item to rule out everything but the black box.
I won't dispute the convenience of EFI or electronic ignitions; I like the idea of being able to hop my R1 at any track in any conditions and not have to think about jetting. However, if I have an EFI problem, my day is done. I tend to agree with Purple, especially the way he spoke about the old triple.
The thrust of my post was that some of us are Luddites, and understand that some are not, which is fine. Perhaps optimistic nihilist is a better descriptor.
I actually liked the Van Van. Looking forward to finding a used one, perhaps, even with its superfluous tech :)
 
#17 ·
Oh yeah. Amazing how many reviews you read about VAN Van and a lack of off road ability. but none based on Riding. The BIKE. All just opinions based on “the look” in a picture. as intelligent as going back to points as a way o evaluate a motorbike. I love everyone and can be friends with Luddites but have to question thier judgement.
 
#18 ·
EFI is the way forward, yet we embrace the TW simply because of its simplicity – a two valve thumper that can take you anywhere, and 99% of the time, take you back again

Once upon a time, I had a Suzi GT550K triple two-stroke for about six years – three sets of points, three capacitors, three carbs – and a swinging arm made out of rubber. We fought each other through many campaigns, and both of us came out of it grinning. That was how it was back then, cantankerous curmudgeonly bikes, and a rider to match. That bike had “soul”, and once you understood that, you became part of it

How many times have we heard of CDI faults on here ? – and the associated costs of both diagnostic and replacement ?

Almost as many times as “gummed up” carb threads I guess, but will those carb threads disappear with EFI ? – or will they simply mutate into “gummed up EFI” ? – equally hard to diagnose correctly, and with the costs of associated swapping out of parts to fix it

Progress aside, there are only two reasons to have a bike such as the 30 year old design of the TW with EFI – emissions, and convenience

Slide vs CV, no contest – slide every time. Same thing with EFI – sometimes it’s not about “practicality and convenience” – it’s about “soul”

This isn’t just about any old bike, it’s about the TW – your TW. You are the only one who understands it, knows what it needs, and how to get the best out of it. You accept that if it fails, you have both failed – man and machine together as one

As capable as the VanVan is, the thing is like a quartz watch – run it until it stops, and then take it to the dealer for a new battery – no “soul”

As an example of the perfection of design, fuel efficiency et al – the VanVan is up there with the best – while in reality, all it ended up being, is a beach bike that failed. Run it for five years or so, and move on. As ironic as it may seem, few of us want a small bore two valve thumper that doesn’t involve the rider further than chucking fuel into the thing, and spitting on the chain occasionally. We might think that would be heaven, but the truth is, we would be bored shitless

Like a rider taking a horse up a trail, you learn each other, and trust each other

You get that with the TW – you don’t get that with the VanVan – “no soul” ……
 
#19 ·
I think the Van Van people were reading the TW site seeing what many liked, FI, softer seat, round headlight and an oil cooler. Even though people had mentioned those things they weren't willing to jump ship. Now if they had read some of the other posts and put a 250 in it with a kickstarter I think they might have gotten a lot more people to jump ship.
 
#22 ·
Rode my 2019 Van Van 200 Home from the dealer yesterday. I traded my 2015 Honda Grom in on the VV. I have owned a couple TW's and also a couple Groms so with the VV having FI and a nice seat wanted to try one for awhile. First impression after 30 miles is much more room over the Grom and a bit more power/speed on the VV. Seat on the VV makes it way more comfy over the TW and the less aggressive tires on the VV are not as harsh with speeds very close.. I recall hitting 72 on my TW and I did that yesterday on the VV. Good first impression from the VV build quality. If anyone is considering a purchase of a TW or a Van Van and is on the fence about which one to buy go for the best deal $$$ wise as they are both capable. I prefer the slightly more street orientation of the Van Van with the much better seat.
 
#23 ·
The VanVan's factory tires are not quite as aggressive as the TW's. Also it comes to you with a stressed member engine in stock form. There is a accessory guard/brace that can be easily bolted on.

The VanVan is awesome on paved roads. I suspect it will do perfectly fine on trails, fire roads, beaches and other non-technical terrain. I just haven't had mine long enough to explore all these possibilities yet. Not planning on bouncing it down stone washes, multiple jumps or similar. That's what TW's are for. :)

It's a great run-around, comfy and easy to drive. Yes, it was discontinued stateside. However I am pretty sure it's still going strong with it's 125 sibling in Europe. There just isn't any good marketing here to attract the 20-somethings to riding, much less solid basic transport like the VV.

The cycle companies REALLY need to hang out in Hollywood and be in communication with Netflix/Hulu/Disney/etc production companies. Figure out which forthcoming shows could use one or two of the main characters on cycles and then provide them. Could you IMAGINE the sales if Disney had one of their driving age teen characters commuting between scenes on a funky VV, Honda Rebel, Grom or similar? Pontiac learned this lesson decades ago with staggering sales of the TransAm that went with Smokey and the Bandit AND Knight Rider.
 
#25 ·
Well, like a carb you jump it or throw a (hopefully new) battery in. If the old battery has some at least some power, you can push start/pop the clutch. However,it is far more difficult than doing this to a carbed engine. Took at least 10 tries before I managed it when my daughter drained the battery on me. I've done carbed engines usually in 2-3 tries.

That said, if you preemptively change your 4 year old battery (and get your kid used to a clutch) you shouldn't have a problem with the battery. If I was that worried about it, they make beautiful SMALL jump boxes that can be added to my travel pack. Which I would consider if I was deep in the trails somewhere away from roads and traffic. But it'd be on the list after emergency fuel, some water, a tire patch kit and a gps.

Here's an example....
 
#26 ·
Finally got one former TW back in fine form with a China flat slide carb. At least easier to swap out/clean jets over stock. Not task for amateurs fo sho. Delivered along with my VV to do my own head to head testing down on Farm. From observations on trailer and riding both off road. I can say the VV is quieter than TW. Other than that total draw. Same same same. Love em both. Best ranch/farm design ever.
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#27 ·
A few more miles on the VV and here's what I found.

Tried an off-road motorcycle trail. Narrow, sand of varying depths. Made it a few hundred yards as I was realizing I was out of my depth of skill and possibly the ability of the VV. Front tire dug in and followed the track of which ever grain of sand shoved it. I've seen other VV riders saying the bike becomes quite unpredictable in deep sand, despite what you think those balloon tires would do. Switched over to the service road, also sand but mostly not as deep and we did pretty good to get from point A to point B. Still had to limit the speed, especially when the sand got too deep.

Where it VV really showed it's ability was exploring gravel backroads and service roads. Very stable, very predicable and quite comfy. Quite the opposite of my larger street bike which hates lose gravel. I'm hoping to take it up to northern WI and MI and start blasting down some fire roads and back roads later this summer. I'm sure it'll eat dirt and moderate mud nearly as well.

Around town street performance is still solid. The single thumper is a bit buzzy, but gets you around town and between towns when it needs to.
 
#28 ·
Back to life VV thread! i finally finished the 500 mile service on mine. knees been keeping me on my forward control V star. Finally I can push the unit and my knee could sorta let me shift.
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.So off we went on a fun secondary road near home. Complete with wash outs and four creek crossings! VV proved stellar and was so much crazy fun when I got home I hopped on my 1150 GSA and went for a ride. Fun but way too serious with the extra 250 lbs. Went by Suzuki dealer for parts. They had a TW on lot, ouch! Not moving they say, everyone buying FI XT250. Did say they still can get old stock VV if patient. Crazed times in shipping right now.
I had read that the VV was coming back this year but they didn’t know about it. Went next door to new BMW dealer just to look. Opps. Rode home a 22 G310GS in triple black, leaving the behemoth r 1150 GSA there for someone more of a man than I. The “Indian” BMW is amazing so far. Just enough power to be safe on the highway (unlike TW or VV) but less than 400 lbs. I lost 200lbs in an hour! I’m not real sure of it’s “off road” ability but it will be fine on roads the GSA could do and easier with better economy. I have the VV for off road travels.
Cool I now have two wee bikes to allow for friends to come ride.
The Indian BMW is as techno as you can get total opposite of TW and quite the departure from the VV even. But three year warranty and the dealer is 8 miles away.
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#30 ·
I love it all. I’d own another TW if they would fuel inject. Hmm maybe. Van Van really same bike in different wrapper. Even injected not safe playing at highway speeds with cars. The Indian BMW a different tool for different job. I try and embrace diversity in all aspects of life.
 
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