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Thread: Oil Cooler for TW-How Much Does it Help?

  1. #21
    Super Moderator littletommy's Avatar
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    Per your request brother G

    https://www.tw200forum.com/forum/gen...on-t-look.html

    https://www.tw200forum.com/forum/per...7-how-hot.html



    Quote Originally Posted by GaryL View Post
    I bought two of the original Lizrdbrth cooler systems back some years ago. They are/were very well designed and worked perfectly. You might find the cooler to be a rather valuable upgrade if you live far south or west where the temps you ride in are 90 and above on a regular basis. Here in the NE there honestly is no real need for additional cooling except for a very few days when it does get unseasonably hot. IMO for those of us here in the northern parts of the country you would get just as much benefit by going to the lighter synthetic oils that withstand the heat much better than the dino blends. Even Lizrdbrth recommended to me to cover the radiator if riding in much cooler temps because the TW engine does have a preferred operating temperature and the cooler just might keep it too cool at times. There used to be some discussions on the old site where guys had the hand held temp gauges and showed comparison temps both with and without the coolers and they did prove the coolers worked but it was not that much difference in the grand scheme of things except out in the hot deserts. Don't quote me on the temp numbers but 265 is what I think the engine was without the cooler and 250 with it and this was in a very hot climate. Purple or LT might be able to resurrect some of those old threads and I am pretty sure Goldenhtr, Gerry and a few of the western members were in those discussions.

    GaryL
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Apolloha's Avatar
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    I read thru these threads. I have one of the oil coolers and would not ever ride without it. I use my hand as an indicator of how well it works. No gauges needed.

    I know Lizrdbrth is no longer here. Anyone know what happened?
    2017 Apollo 250
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  3. #23
    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    Thanks LT! Is it OKAY to still be missing brother Lizrdbrth? Every time I look up and see those tracks in the sky I always say, That's LB riding his TW up there.
    This is what I was referring to in those threads and the man knew his stuff.

    "'Bout all I have to contribute to the discussion is to restate the fact that oil is oil when it comes to ideal temps. Over 212 to eliminate moisture and fuel contamination, under 300 to prevent rapid breakdown. In cooler climes the challenge will always be to get your oil warm ENOUGH.

    One of the best ways to accomplish that is via long warmups. Some call that holdover thinking and a remnant of the dino days, but I don't much care what the claims surrounding synthetics may be, moisture is moisture. Proponents of synthetics will tell you that you can just turn the key and hammer down without warmup and while that may or may not be true from a lubrication standpoint it leaves contamination out of the equation. It has to be driven out of the crankcase by evaporation, and the only way to evaporate moisture is by ensuring that your engine at least exceeds 212 degrees fahrenheit. In the colder months rides tend to be shorter and it's entirely possible that your engine won't get above 212 on a short hop to the grocery store. If cold enough it may take as much as twenty miles.

    Oil cooler or not, synthetic OR dino, covering your cooler and giving the bike a little extra warmup time before short hops will give you the jump on eliminating moisture and collected fuel vapor from the crankcase.

    I've no side-by-side comparative data because all of my oil cooler testing was done with dino. I had hoped to but unfortunately I'm one of those who did in fact develop base gasket weeping when I used synthetic. It was only slight weeping and it went away once switching back to dino, which I attribute to the smaller molecules and greater detergent action of the synthetic. Hardly an "old wive's tale" when it comes to an air-cooled motor with parts that are subject to more radical expansion and contraction due to wider temperaure variations than with a waterpumper or an automotive engine., it just stands to reason. However on a good, tight or newer motor the dino/synthetic thing should be a non-issue and at least in theory the synthetic should run a bit cooler.."

    Basically too cool is as bad or even worse than too hot.

    GaryL
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  5. #24
    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apolloha View Post
    I read thru these threads. I have one of the oil coolers and would not ever ride without it. I use my hand as an indicator of how well it works. No gauges needed.

    I know Lizrdbrth is no longer here. Anyone know what happened?
    LB took and early exit stage UP and rides above the clouds these days. His widowed wife Purple People Eater still drops by from time to time and as far as I know she is still tossing her leg over a TW seat. Those two were legends on here in the early days and LB was a wealth of knowledge regarding all things TW. There is a thread at the top of the general forum titled Lizrdbreth will post no more.

    GaryL
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    Be Decisive! Right or Wrong just make a decision. ​ The road of life is paved with flat squirrels that couldn't make a decision.

    Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
    If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

    1987 Yamaha BW350 Big Wheel
    2017 Snowdog Track sled tow motor for ice fishing
    Kubota BX2370 Subcompact tractor with snow blower
    Wilderness System Ride 115 fishing Kayaks

  6. #25
    Super Moderator littletommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryL View Post
    Thanks LT! Is it OKAY to still be missing brother Lizrdbrth? Every time I look up and see those tracks in the sky I always say, That's LB riding his TW up there.
    It's OK. I still give him "likes" when I read some of his posts...

    GaryL, Ken, Fred and 1 others like this.
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    If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    John 3:16
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 3:17
    For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

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  7. #26
    Senior Member sibyrnes's Avatar
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    I have to wonder what kind of conditions you guys are riding in that you are concerned about your TW engine running "too cool". You aren't planning a trip to the North Pole are you? It's been done already Seriously those little engines are usually being driven pretty hard - I know mine is. That's why I got the Lizard oil cooler, and it is a real quality, nicely made piece of equipment.

    I doubt if anyone has ever had engine problems with their TW due too their engine not running hot enough.
    2017 TW200, 2012 Ducati Multistrada, 2006 Polaris Hawkeye

  8. #27
    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sibyrnes View Post
    I have to wonder what kind of conditions you guys are riding in that you are concerned about your TW engine running "too cool". You aren't planning a trip to the North Pole are you? It's been done already Seriously those little engines are usually being driven pretty hard - I know mine is. That's why I got the Lizard oil cooler, and it is a real quality, nicely made piece of equipment.

    I doubt if anyone has ever had engine problems with their TW due too their engine not running hot enough.
    Apparently you missed post #23 here where I directly quoted the man himself who designed your Lizard Oil Cooler. You are only half right when you state "those little engines are usually being driven pretty hard". Many are while many others are rarely ever driven at all let alone driven hard. The vast numbers of low mileage 20 and 30 year old TWs tells that truth. Many TWs are owned by older gents and woman who use them around their properties and for very short hops in to town on trips of only a few miles or less and the engines often don't get up to full operating temps before they are parked. I have ridden mine in the snow and in 20 degrees to run up to the barn or run over to a neighbors place quite often. I never hammered on any of the 7 TWs I have owned and sold and more often than not I only ever logged a hundred or less miles on them in an entire year. Lizrdbrth designed these great oil coolers for a much hotter climate than we have here in the frozen northern reaches and they do a great job wherever and whenever needed but they can also impede the basic necessity of allowing the engine to get up to full operating temperature and warm enough to burn off or burn out any collected condensation in the sump. Out in western PA where you are listed as residing there might be a grand total of 10-15 days each summer where the O/S temps go over or even close to 90 degrees while in the southern/western zones 90-110 are the norm.
    This same exact principal hold very true for your cars and trucks. Toward the end of my working career I lived in a house that was just 9/10ths of a mile from work far north near Rochester NY. On many very cold winter mornings I would start the car, drive to work and park it in less than 3 minutes and do the same to drive it home. I learned the hard way about mufflers, exhaust systems and catalytic converters that they absolutely must be driven to at the least operating temps all the time or the condensation will rust them to pieces in a very short time from the inside out. If you have ever been behind a car or truck and seen water dripping out of the tailpipe that might have been me on a very short hop when the exhaust had still not burned off the condensate. Think of it like this. So you run your TW for a few hours in 50 degrees and then park the hot bike in your garage where it cools real fast. That rapid change in temp is where condensation forms and just as a side note you have a very hot engine right below you cool cold metal fuel tank and the condensation is happening inside there as well. I used to run my bike in the cold and park it hot in my storage shed. If I go back out to the shed 20 minutes later I could see my fuel tank soaking wet on the outside and can only assume that same wet is on the inside of the tank and is why the tanks have rust in them.

    GaryL
    Purple likes this.
    Be Decisive! Right or Wrong just make a decision. ​ The road of life is paved with flat squirrels that couldn't make a decision.

    Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
    If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

    1987 Yamaha BW350 Big Wheel
    2017 Snowdog Track sled tow motor for ice fishing
    Kubota BX2370 Subcompact tractor with snow blower
    Wilderness System Ride 115 fishing Kayaks

  9. #28
    Senior Member sibyrnes's Avatar
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    Thanks GaryL for the follow up. I did not miss post #23 and I read it with great interest. You have listed a lot of situations that would be a problem whether or not one has an oil cooler installed. I'm glad I have one for the riding I do.

    The air cooled engine definitely has temperature problems - one of the reasons they will soon be extinct!
    Last edited by sibyrnes; 08-02-2019 at 08:39 AM.
    2017 TW200, 2012 Ducati Multistrada, 2006 Polaris Hawkeye

  10. #29
    Member SpeedyTide's Avatar
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    Sorry, if I've missed, but are these still available?
    Jeff
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  11. #30
    Senior Member Apolloha's Avatar
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    I got mine on ebay from mekdad1 . I looked today but I don't see any for sale right now. Maybe he will see this and make a few more.
    2017 Apollo 250
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