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  1. #11
    Junior Member Imaposer's Avatar
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    Wonderful fabrication! Really liking your set-up. And also love all your CF bits from the other thread!

    One question... Yamaha rates the factory "carrier" as having a load limit of 7 pounds. I would think this is conservative, but I have read of owners overloading them and damaging the subframe over rough terrain. I see that your design is also supported by the seat mount area too though. And perhaps your CF tail cover adds a lot of strength to the fender area. Or maybe you've reinforced this area in a way I can't see in the photos? Do you have any idea of how much of your load weight will be supported by the fender support? Just a thought that occurred to me...

  2. #12
    Senior Member BUMBLESPECIMOODA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imaposer View Post
    Wonderful fabrication! Really liking your set-up. And also love all your CF bits from the other thread!

    One question... Yamaha rates the factory "carrier" as having a load limit of 7 pounds. I would think this is conservative, but I have read of owners overloading them and damaging the subframe over rough terrain. I see that your design is also supported by the seat mount area too though. And perhaps your CF tail cover adds a lot of strength to the fender area. Or maybe you've reinforced this area in a way I can't see in the photos? Do you have any idea of how much of your load weight will be supported by the fender support? Just a thought that occurred to me...
    I'm to weigh the rigged bike soon (going away friday for 4-days on it) will post gear weight soon.

    First thing I did do, was make some aluminum struts to connect the tail end, from the old signal light mounts, to the alu plates for the jerry cans. That should spread some of the loads.

    The CF plate does nothing but look cool. LOL

  3. #13
    Junior Member Imaposer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUMBLESPECIMOODA View Post
    I'm to weigh the rigged bike soon (going away friday for 4-days on it) will post gear weight soon.

    First thing I did do, was make some aluminum struts to connect the tail end, from the old signal light mounts, to the alu plates for the jerry cans. That should spread some of the loads.

    The CF plate does nothing but look cool. LOL

    Ahhh... That should definitely help. From your obvious skill level I assumed that you had already thought of the weight issue. No offense intended. Nonetheless, I wanted to mention it just in case... Would hate to see all that great work create an issue.

    Would you happen to have photos of the braces and the Rotopax mounting plates, without the cans in place? I could never fabricate something as intricate as your rack or CF bits, but I have been known to make a few things and I love tinkering. Your creativity and methods might give me some ideas, if you don't mind sharing them...

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  5. #14
    Senior Member BUMBLESPECIMOODA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imaposer View Post
    Ahhh... That should definitely help. From your obvious skill level I assumed that you had already thought of the weight issue. No offense intended. Nonetheless, I wanted to mention it just in case... Would hate to see all that great work create an issue.

    Posibility of failure is always calculated into the design. It's experience that helps get around that. If something fails, fix it, learn from it, and make the next one improved.

    Would you happen to have photos of the braces and the Rotopax mounting plates, without the cans in place? I could never fabricate something as intricate as your rack or CF bits, but I have been known to make a few things and I love tinkering. Your creativity and methods might give me some ideas, if you don't mind sharing them...
    Never say never. I cound never play guitar. Then I picked one up and learned. Same goes for composite fabrication, brazing steel tube, and soon to be...logt punch technique.

    I'll get pics of what you asked soon, in a future reply.

  6. #15
    Senior Member TeeDoubleUTwoHundred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUMBLESPECIMOODA View Post
    Never say never. I cound never play guitar. Then I picked one up and learned. Same goes for composite fabrication, brazing steel tube, and soon to be...logt punch technique.

    I'll get pics of what you asked soon, in a future reply.
    If you wouldn't mind, what basic tools/equipment would I need to start learning metal working/fabrication? Any good books or websites that you would recommend on the subject?

    I was planning on starting wood working, but this looks more interesting to me.

    Thanks.
    2017 TW200 -> Hand Guards-Chain-Foot Pegs-Skid Plate-Shifter-Grips-Mirrors-Fuel Filter-Fender-Levers

  7. #16
    Junior Member Imaposer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDoubleUTwoHundred View Post
    If you wouldn't mind, what basic tools/equipment would I need to start learning metal working/fabrication? Any good books or websites that you would recommend on the subject?

    I was planning on starting wood working, but this looks more interesting to me.

    Thanks.
    I'm not BUMBLESPECIMOODA obviously, and I'm sure you can find many various opinions on this subject, but I'll throw out some ideas...

    I've worked for well over 30 years in an industry that utilizes highly skilled welders every day. While I'm not one, I have and continue to work closely with them daily. They are all very skilled in their craft and are excellent fabricators. When I became interested in building some steel projects, I talked to some of them for their opinions....

    It really depends on your goals and what sort of things you want to build of course. There's brazing, or soldering, which essentially uses a molten metal to "glue" the parts together. They can make a fairly strong bond and this technique is used in many things. But, for real strength, welding is the way to go because unlike brazing and soldering, welding actually melts the parent metal as well as the filler metal so that they fuse and become ONE piece of steel. Nothing wrong with the other joinery methods of course. I just prefer welding for my projects.

    Now, there are different forms of welding, depending on your goals and the type of metals you plan to work with. There's TIG, MIG, and stick rod. In my experience, in order of ease of use for a novice, I would rank them MIG, Stick, and then TIG. Each have their advantages with TIG probably being the most flexible and producing the prettiest highest quality welds. TIG can also be used to weld SS and aluminum, so gives great flexibility for the talented. I've tried it and found I'm not coordinated enough because with TIG you use one hand to produce the arc, and the other for the filler wire. I'm sure I could have gotten the hang of it if I'd really put the time and effort into it, but a good TIG welder is more skilled than some. Good TIG equipment is also not inexpensive. Between stick and MIG, it's a toss up probably and will depend on the thickness of steel you plan to work with. For really thick plate, I'd say stick. And that is almost exclusively used in my industry. But, for thinner stock, MIG is definitely better, IMO. Stick is a little trickier to me because you have to manually feed the rod as it's burning, so that makes it a multi-dimensional thing. With MIG, once you have your heat and feed speed set properly, the wire feeds as it burns, greatly simplifying things for a novice, IMO. I was advised by my experts, that for the home hobbyist and for what I wanted to do, that MIG was probably my best option. So, I bought a Lincoln machine. I selected one that came with the gas kit, as I had originally intended to get the gas bottles and go that route. But, I started with flux core wire and just stayed with it since it's easy and saved me the money/hassles of the bottles, gas, etc, and while not as clean and pretty, it gets the job done. With that said, I still consider adding the gas to my setup from time to time. Who knows, one day I may...

    As far as equipment, at a minimum, you'd need a welding machine. I prefer quality so did my research and selected the Lincoln model that suited my needs, but there are cheaper machines out there. But, buy once, cry once is my motto on many things. You'll need a hood. I recommend the auto darkening shield type as it simplifies things while learning. Welding gloves. Face shield for cutting/grinding, etc.

    You'll need an angle grinder. I recommend 4.5" for all around use. I made do with just one for years, but it quickly became a hassle to constantly be changing back and forth between my grinding disk, wire wheel, and cut-off wheel during a simple project. So, I added two more so I have dedicated grinders for the tasks I use them for most. WELL worth it, IMO. But one works if you're keeping to a budget. And obviously you'll need grinding disks, wire wheels, cut-off wheels, etc.

    You'll need a way to cut metal. There are quite a few options here. So, I'd recommend researching the subject and decide what will work best for your needs. I have a 14" table top metal cutting chop saw, and cut off wheels for my grinder for smaller things. And just recently I bought a portaband and a table for it from a company called SWAG. It's MUCH better than the chop saw! If I had it to do over, I would skip the chop saw. It's much noisier, slower and messier than the band saw.

    And an oxy/acetylene torch with bottles is nice, but can be pricey. I've always wanted a set, but have got along without due to expense vs how much I really need them for my projects. Really just depends on your needs.

    And then there are various little things that make life easier. Like various types and sizes of clamps, a welding table, bench vise, files, etc. Start with a few basics and you'll discover what you need with a little experience.

    After you've got the basic equipment sorted, find a supply of cheap/free scrap metal and just practice, practice, practice. Don't even worry about making anything. Just weld. Basically just weld pieces together for no real reason other than to learn technique, machine settings for different thicknesses, etc. Practice welding vertically, horizontally, and at various angles as that all changes your technique, travel speed, etc. There are tons of tutorials on youtube that'll help. But, in the end, time under the hood is what it takes. It may sound like work, but I find it fun.

    With all that said, I'll admit that I'm a lousy welder (just don't do it often enough), and a grinder is my best friend. But, I can stick things together and it's allowed me to build quite a few different things over the years.

    Good luck in your pursuit of metal craft. Once you start welding you'll be amazed at how many things you'll find to do with it. It wasn't cheap, but it was one of my best investments in tools as it's allowed me to do so many things that I couldn't have otherwise.
    Last edited by Imaposer; 08-01-2019 at 06:35 PM.

  8. #17
    Super Moderator littletommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imaposer View Post
    I'm not BUMBLESPECIMOODA obviously, and I'm sure you can find many various opinions on this subject, but I'll throw out some ideas...

    I've worked for well over 30 years in an industry that utilizes highly skilled welders every day. While I'm not one, I have and continue to work closely with them daily. They are all very skilled in their craft and are excellent fabricators. When I became interested in building some steel projects, I talked to some of them for their opinions....

    It really depends on your goals and what sort of things you want to build of course. There's brazing, or soldering, which essentially uses a molten metal to "glue" the parts together. They can make a fairly strong bond and this technique is used in many things. But, for real strength, welding is the way to go because unlike brazing and soldering, welding actually melts the parent metal as well as the filler metal so that they fuse and become ONE piece of steel. Nothing wrong with the other joinery methods of course. I just prefer welding for my projects.

    Now, there are different forms of welding, depending on your goals and the type of metals you plan to work with. There's TIG, MIG, and stick rod. In my experience, in order of ease of use for a novice, I would rank them MIG, Stick, and then TIG. Each have their advantages with TIG probably being the most flexible and producing the prettiest highest quality welds. TIG can also be used to weld SS and aluminum, so gives great flexibility for the talented. I've tried it and found I'm not coordinated enough because with TIG you use one hand to produce the arc, and the other for the filler wire. I'm sure I could have gotten the hang of it if I'd really put the time and effort into it, but a good TIG welder is more skilled than some. Good TIG equipment is also not inexpensive. Between stick and MIG, it's a toss up probably and will depend on the thickness of steel you plan to work with. For really thick plate, I'd say stick. And that is almost exclusively used in my industry. But, for thinner stock, MIG is definitely better, IMO. Stick is a little trickier to me because you have to manually feed the rod as it's burning, so that makes it a multi-dimensional thing. With MIG, once you have your heat and feed speed set properly, the wire feeds as it burns, greatly simplifying things for a novice, IMO. I was advised by my experts, that for the home hobbyist and for what I wanted to do, that MIG was probably my best option. So, I bought a Lincoln machine. I selected one that came with the gas kit, as I had originally intended to get the gas bottles and go that route. But, I started with flux core wire and just stayed with it since it's easy and saved me the money/hassles of the bottles, gas, etc, and while not as clean and pretty, it gets the job done. With that said, I still consider adding the gas to my setup from time to time. Who knows, one day I may...

    As far as equipment, at a minimum, you'd need a welding machine. I prefer quality so did my research and selected the Lincoln model that suited my needs, but there are cheaper machines out there. But, buy once, cry once is my motto on many things. You'll need a hood. I recommend the auto darkening shield type as it simplifies things while learning. Welding gloves. Face shield for cutting/grinding, etc.

    You'll need an angle grinder. I recommend 4.5" for all around use. I made do with just one for years, but it quickly became a hassle to constantly be changing back and forth between my grinding disk, wire wheel, and cut-off wheel during a simple project. So, I added two more so I have dedicated grinders for the tasks I use them for most. WELL worth it, IMO. But one works if you're keeping to a budget. And obviously you'll need grinding disks, wire wheels, cut-off wheels, etc.

    You'll need a way to cut metal. There are quite a few options here. So, I'd recommend researching the subject and decide what will work best for your needs. I have a 14" table top metal cutting chop saw, and cut off wheels for my grinder for smaller things. And just recently I bought a portaband and a table for it from a company called SWAG. It's MUCH better than the chop saw! If I had it to do over, I would skip the chop saw. It's much noisier, slower and messier than the band saw.

    And an oxy/acetylene torch with bottles is nice, but can be pricey. I've always wanted a set, but have got along without due to expense vs how much I really need them for my projects. Really just depends on your needs.

    And then there are various little things that make life easier. Like various types and sizes of clamps, a welding table, bench vise, files, etc. Start with a few basics and you'll discover what you need with a little experience.

    After you've got the basic equipment sorted, find a supply of cheap/free scrap metal and just practice, practice, practice. Don't even worry about making anything. Just weld. Basically just weld pieces together for no real reason other than to learn technique, machine settings for different thicknesses, etc. Practice welding vertically, horizontally, and at various angles as that all changes your technique, travel speed, etc. There are tons of tutorials on youtube that'll help. But, in the end, time under the hood is what it takes. It may sound like work, but I find it fun.

    With all that said, I'll admit that I'm a lousy welder (just don't do it often enough), and a grinder is my best friend. But, I can stick things together and it's allowed me to build quite a few different things over the years.

    Good luck in your pursuit of metal craft. Once you start welding you'll be amazed at how many things you'll find to do with it. It wasn't cheap, but it was one of my best investments in tools as it's allowed me to do so many things that I couldn't have otherwise.
    Nicely written.
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  9. #18
    Senior Member TeeDoubleUTwoHundred's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply. You've given me lots things to think about, and I appreciate the time you took to write this down. More than a few occasions I've wished I had a welder handy. Not only for projects, but fixing things around the house, yard, etc.

    Looks like it would be a fun pastime for me, and hey, nothing cooler than making your own stuff.
    2017 TW200 -> Hand Guards-Chain-Foot Pegs-Skid Plate-Shifter-Grips-Mirrors-Fuel Filter-Fender-Levers

  10. #19
    Junior Member Imaposer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDoubleUTwoHundred View Post
    Thanks for the reply. You've given me lots things to think about, and I appreciate the time you took to write this down. More than a few occasions I've wished I had a welder handy. Not only for projects, but fixing things around the house, yard, etc.

    Looks like it would be a fun pastime for me, and hey, nothing cooler than making your own stuff.
    I agree. For me, it's a combination of fabricating things out of my head into real steel parts, AND being able to repair things. I can appreciate woodworking too, but after all these years of working with professional welders, it's really impressive to see the practical things they can create. And it works REALLY well with my lifelong passion for motorcycles.

    I'm not sure if you have Harbor Freight in Canada, but I've bought a lot of my smaller items (clamps and such) from them for VERY reasonable prices. Can't speak to their machines really, as I went with a known quantity with Lincoln, but I've had good luck with all of the other things I've bought there. Plus, they have a good selection of items to browse through as you're learning what might come in handy.

    If you enjoy tinkering like I do, I think you'll enjoy welding. It's fun, is a good skill to learn, and allows you to do so many things. After I bought mine, I was amazed that I made it that many years without it...

    Apologies to BUMBLESPECIMOODA! I didn't mean to hijack his thread. This is about his excellent bike build and I didn't mean to turn it into a welding thread.

  11. #20
    Senior Member Darth's Avatar
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    Great design & fab!
    "Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death."
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    “It’s more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow”.

    "The less horsepower a motorcycle has, the more it can teach you.” - Ben Bostrom

    And though a mountain may rise up and smack the livin' shit outta me,
    and wad up my bike somethin' awful...
    Still, I rise!
    (With apologies to Maya Angelou)


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