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Thread: Wiseco Improvement

  1. #1
    Senior Member elime's Avatar
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    Wiseco Improvement

    I went for a ride yesterday on my TW with its new Wiseco piston. I swear I can feel an improvement, or an increase in power / performance. Nothing earth shaking but for sure better. Last night I began to wonder "how much better?"

    I used as a base line 15 horsepower and the stock 67mm bore and the stock 9.5 compression ratio. Stroke is 55.7mm.
    My upgrade was the Wiseco piston with a 68mm bore and a 10.25 compression ratio. The question is how much horsepower is being produced?

    67mm = 196 cc.
    68mm = 202 cc

    15hp/196cc x 202cc = 15.46 hp @ 9.5 compression.

    A little Google search (horsepower vs compression) and I found: Wallace Racing - Calculate New HP From Change In Compression Ratios Calculator Plug in the numbers and out comes the answer. Long story short: 15.78 horsepower for 202cc @ 10.25 compression.

    A little disappointing -- I was hoping the increase in compression ratio would make a bigger difference but it is what it is and as I said earlier I can feel an increase in performance and to me the bike is more fun.

    As an aside, I have a 70mm piston in a thin walled cylinder, the one Fred almost got.

    70mm = 214 cc.

    15hp/196 x 214 = 16.38 hp

    Plug 16.38 into the compression formula = 16.72hp !

    If I can feel going from 15 to 15.78, then going from 15 to 16.72 ought to feel like I am on a rocket ship!

    Now I am starting to wonder what TWBrian's bike has. IIRC he has a 71mm bore with a 58mm stroke and an increase in compression........................and he did say it was a lot faster! Hmmmm..........
    Last edited by elime; 09-25-2015 at 04:51 PM.
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    Long live the internal combustion engine!

  2. #2
    Senior Member TW-Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elime View Post

    Now I am starting to wonder what TWBrian's bike has. IIRC he has a 71mm bore with a 58mm stroke and an increase in compression........................and he did say it was a lot faster! Hmmmm..........
    Tony,

    I believe that I am at 70.5 x 58 which equals 226cc, and the higher 10.25:1 compression Wiseco piston. And I think that I said that the improvement was definitely noticeable and that the bike has more zip to it.

    Are you planning on taking it for a test ride at the Wrench & Ride next weekend - Oct. 3rd?

    Brian

  3. #3
    Senior Member elime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW-Brian View Post
    Tony,



    Are you planning on taking it for a test ride at the Wrench & Ride next weekend - Oct. 3rd?

    Brian
    Yes. With a 30 cc increase in displacement plus the increase in compression ratio I look forward to a quick ride.
    Long live the internal combustion engine!

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  5. #4
    Senior Member Turtle Chaser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elime View Post

    As an aside, I have a 70mm piston in a thin walled cylinder, the one Fred almost got.

    70mm = 214 cc.

    Hi elime, is this a stock TW cylinder bored out for the 70mm wiseco piston? So just how thin is the cylinder wall? I've got to fix my base gasket this winter and I could just put it back together (if it looks great), bore to 68mm w/wiseco or go 70mm w/wiseco.
    I just don't want to lose any reliability, but would love to be able to pull a tooth or two less on the rear sprocket for the open road.
    Any input will be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    MAC


    P.S. elime, I guess you already gave me specs on that thin wall cylinder (.060"). Sorry, I was confused at the time about which cylinder you were showing.
    macbig, if you say it's OK I'm going to assume it will be reliable for an otherwise stock motor.
    thanks again, mac
    Last edited by Turtle Chaser; 09-25-2015 at 08:16 PM.
    GOD BLESS & RIDE SAFE, TC____________ BC rides: Honda SL100, Honda TL125, Penton125 ISDT, KTM400 ISDT

    now riding '06 TW w/ Jimbo Window, Acerbis bushbusters, ProTaper bars w/risers, Pro Grip 737's, Osram Rally headlamp w/modulator, turn signal beeper, Kenda k270 4.00 x 18,
    triple horns w/relay, big pegs, folding shifter, tuned carb w/drilled slide, 15/50 w/D.I.D. O-ring, RedLine 20w/50, Sterns w/extra padding, extra LED brake light, xt225 brake arm, rear Cycle Racks w/hacked milk crate. Hidden Content

  6. #5
    Senior Member macbig2k1's Avatar
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    Yes, you can use a 70.0 mm piston on the 200 cylinder. But this will be the last oversize for this sleeve.
    In the future, if you need the next oversize you have to replace the sleeve to a new 200 cc or the bigger 225 cc (cylinder needs to be rebored).
    ZDR1 and Gerry like this.

  7. #6
    Senior Member lbxr's Avatar
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    My questions for you higher compression guys:

    My Tw seems a little soft right off idle, Does the higher C/R make a noticeable difference right off the bottom?

    Any pinging when they get hot?

    Do you need to run race gas to prevent pinging?

    Thanks!

  8. #7
    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    I have elime's original 68mm "Big Bore" with almost 1,000 trouble free miles on it. I try to run E10 91 octane pump gas. Once in smallish Santa Margarita I could only find 87 octane and the bike did not seem to knock or suffer running one tankful of regular. This was the Russell Second Memorial Ride over the coastal range and onto the beach. I would say the hi octane recommendation is of concern but not an absolute requirement. This apparent flexibility is a relief as 91 octane is not always available on the dark side of the moon.
    Subjectively I sense an subtle improvement in performance. I was not really expecting gobs of wheelie inducing torque nor screaming acceleration from punching that baby out to a mighty 202cc Big Bore but it did seem to out-race a friend's stock TW a few month's ago. A good deal of satisfaction comes from noting the seemingly superior quality of the Wiseco piston with it's multitude of oil ports for the rings and slickly milled surface. Darn purdy,looking thing, I did admire it before sealing it away hopefully forever.
    Last edited by Fred; 09-25-2015 at 11:13 PM.
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  9. #8
    Senior Member TW-Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lbxr View Post
    My questions for you higher compression guys:

    My Tw seems a little soft right off idle, Does the higher C/R make a noticeable difference right off the bottom?

    Any pinging when they get hot?

    Do you need to run race gas to prevent pinging?

    Thanks!
    I can't really say much for sure as I have only put about 50 miles on mine so far. I haven't noticed any softness, if anything it seems to pull stronger when starting off. Haven't noticed any pinging. I am currently on a first tank made up of about 1/3 of old stale regular gas and about 2/3 of fresh premium gas - clearly not race gas!

    I was afraid that mine might be running too lean because it smelled like it was hot. But I pulled the plug and it has a nice tan color. I think that I am just baking on/burning off all the rattle can spray paint that I sprayed the engine with.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Turtle Chaser's Avatar
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    I'm thinking the best way to go for me is to buy a cylinder off eBay and save mine for a backup.
    Do you guys know if all years of TW cylinders are the same?
    IIRC there were differences with the chain tensioner.

    thanks for the help, MAC
    elime likes this.
    GOD BLESS & RIDE SAFE, TC____________ BC rides: Honda SL100, Honda TL125, Penton125 ISDT, KTM400 ISDT

    now riding '06 TW w/ Jimbo Window, Acerbis bushbusters, ProTaper bars w/risers, Pro Grip 737's, Osram Rally headlamp w/modulator, turn signal beeper, Kenda k270 4.00 x 18,
    triple horns w/relay, big pegs, folding shifter, tuned carb w/drilled slide, 15/50 w/D.I.D. O-ring, RedLine 20w/50, Sterns w/extra padding, extra LED brake light, xt225 brake arm, rear Cycle Racks w/hacked milk crate. Hidden Content

  11. #10
    Senior Member TW-Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtle Chaser View Post
    IIRC there were differences with the chain tensioner.
    You are correct.

    All year cylinders can be used but model years 1987-2000 require the manual cam chain tensioner and model years 2001+ require the automatic style tensioner.

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