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Thread: Engine smoking after chain derailed

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    Junior Member Nico200's Avatar
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    Engine smoking after chain derailed

    OK so I was rocking my TW around the Pink Coral Sand Dunes near Zion in southern Utah (definitely worth a visit).. when I finally derailed my chain and got it tangled up realllllly good under the crank case. I was able to loosen it by turning the bolt on the left crankcase until it slackened up enough to get it back on the sprockets. I gave the whole bike a good clean (with GUNK engine degreaser) and let it sit for the afternoon after drying and charging the battery. It fired up fine but after about 15 seconds I noticed there's white smoke coming from the exhaust manifold at the front of the bike. I'm not sure if its excess degreaser/water just burning off right outside that seal, or if its actually coming out of the engine block. The smoke is white and smells like petroleum.. no blue or black smoke. Also, I haven't seen any smoke coming out of the back of tailpipe at all, perhaps because I haven't let it idle long enough or revved it to see... but it seems like it is only coming from where the exhaust meets the cylinder.

    Also It's worth noting that I was revving the bike at MAX in 1st gear trying to make it over a dune when the chain derailed. The engine has 14,000 lightly used miles (valve check and oil change 1,500 miles ago) and was working in perfect condition up until the chain incident. Not sure if it's related, but I noticed that my carb manifold (between the cylinder and carb) is lightly cracked around the edges. Don't know if it's sucking air but it visually looks like it definitely could use a replacement. Could I have fried my piston rings or something of that nature?

    Obviously, I am trying to save $$ and seeing if I can perform any other checks on my own before I take it to a professional. I am very experienced with smaller engines (30-50cc zenoah automatic RC engines), but have minimal experience with bikes. I am confident in my mechanical abilities I just haven't got the balls to start ripping things up without asking some of you more knowledgeable folk first. Should I be able to check piston rings just by popping off the spark plug? Should I let the bike idle long enough to see if the smoke stops? Is it safe to try and ride gently without completely destroying it? Could this simply be a water/air filter issue? The weather is finally getting nice here in AZ and I really want to get back on my T Dub.. any help would be appreciated!


    Thanks!
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  2. #2
    Senior Member VintageGW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico200 View Post
    Obviously, I am trying to save $$ and seeing if I can perform any other checks on my own before I take it to a professional. I am very experienced with smaller engines (30-50cc zenoah automatic RC engines), but have minimal experience with bikes. I am confident in my mechanical abilities I just haven't got the balls to start ripping things up without asking some of you more knowledgeable folk first. Should I be able to check piston rings just by popping off the spark plug? Should I let the bike idle long enough to see if the smoke stops? Is it safe to try and ride gently without completely destroying it? Could this simply be a water/air filter issue? The weather is finally getting nice here in AZ and I really want to get back on my T Dub.. any help would be appreciated!
    Thanks!
    Welcome to the forum Nico200! Indeed the weather in AZ (your home state?) is perfect this time of year for riding. Our friend TWilight is on the money with his recommendation. TW's don't react well to to extreme conditions as you described. You may want to consider a chain and sprocket upgrade as the incident may have damaged one or both sprockets and for sure did some harm to the chain. Others may recommend changes in your sprocket ratios to give you more off road capabilities. Tell us more about the bike and let us know what happens to the white smoke situation too!
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  3. #3
    Junior Member Nico200's Avatar
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    Twilight, thanks for the "nice guy welcome" and the response! lol

    Anyways though, the bike is a 2004 and I am located in the Phoenix area. I'm not so sure that's oxymoron.. reason being... it WAS in great condition until the derail. I did not notice any cracks in the carb boot prior to the incident, which is what made me suspect some sort of catastrophic blowout as a result of the derailing. I was unsure about this theory however because it still seemed to have good compression and I saw no black smoke or engine sputtering... but I suppose that's why I came here for some more opinions! Also I don't know much about how to maintain/adjust the chain slack.. so i'm sure that didn't help my cause.


    And yes I quickly realized that going balls-out on the dunes is not always the best idea, I did fine all day until I was forced to find my way back in the dark after these Canadians convinced me to stay and watch the sunset with them. They said they'd light my way with their Commander but they weren't as helpful as I had hoped. Completely my fault, I was trying to keep up and scared of being abandoned alone at night.

    So from your answer I gathered that it should be alright to let the bike run and burn that smoke off? Is it possible that there is a bigger issue going on? Should I change the oil / do any maintenance before firing it up again?
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    Senior Member grewen's Avatar
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    hi nico for once I agree 100% with TWilight and his attitude! what were you doing at pink coral with a motorcycle? were you trying to get run over by a quad?? and never ever trust us Canadians after dark. welcome
    Last edited by grewen; 10-01-2015 at 03:00 PM.
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  6. #5
    Super Moderator Purple's Avatar
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    If the smoke is white and smells of petrol, you’re good to run the engine at idle to let it burn off.

    Engine oil will typically burn blue – petrol vapour is almost invisible – so the “white smoke” is probably something else like water or gunk. The exhaust pipe should be tight to the head, so the chances of anything coming through is negligible – probably just the gunk and water around the joint where you blasted it with both water and gunk earlier

    We do like pictures around here, and I’d suggest your first one should be of you standing next to the bike with a wrench in your hand – these bikes don’t like neglect

    Here’s a link to the manuals, https://tw200forum.com/forum/technica...r-manuals.html and look at the stickies in the tech help section for more details on specific jobs (top link) – anything you’re stuck on, just ask – we’re not all like the electric panda (he just likes to scare people who don’t know him, throw a couple of bamboo shoots his way and he calms down) – and welcome to the mad house ……..
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  7. #6
    Senior Member admiral's Avatar
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    Howdy do Nico200,

    Do check the intake as described above, but... There is a plastic or rubber coating around the intake manifold. It is common for this coating to crack or peel without any leaking. If no leak exists you will be just fine with it as is. However, be sure to check for a leak as TWilight mentioned!


    Exhaust issue. I think I read to much into the statement, but your exhaust isn't plugged correct? The way you worded it and the way I interpreted the statement of no smoke coming out the exhaust, I was thinking the exhaust was now plugged. After re-reading it, I think you simply meant no smoke was coming out the exhaust but wasn't plugged. Just making sure. Thanks
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    Senior Member old mad max's Avatar
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    "YOU DID WHAT" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just kidding. Welcome. And I would say it's gunk burn off.. I have smelled it myself.. OMM.
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    Senior Member phelonius's Avatar
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    You have probably trashed the bike completely. Just send it to me and I will dispose of it for you for free.
    Phelonius

  10. #9
    Senior Member jtomelliott49's Avatar
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    Phelonius be FUNNY!!!!! And RC airplanes be FUN!!!!!! You must have flown big ones to use the Zenoah engines. Welcome to the forum, and you will love your TW. Soon you will want to put a 250cc engine and six speed transmission in it. lol
    Tom in Wichita

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  11. #10
    Junior Member Nico200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phelonius View Post
    You have probably trashed the bike completely. Just send it to me and I will dispose of it for you for free.
    Won't be necessary! I fired the bike up and began idling... when the combination of the engine running and the sweltering hot 106 degree phoenix heat this afternoon apparently burned off the excess gunk degreaser about 5 minutes in! Good sign. I sprayed some carb cleaner around the carb boot and no changes in idle speed. I all the sudden got an overwhelming wave of joy that I didn't completely destroy my new TW (not brand new, but new to me) in the sand dunes with those crazy Canadians.... until I finally got the courage to step on and kick down in to first gear to find that BAM! She runs! I took it slow at first because it's been sitting over a month, but I got a solid few miles of smooth riding in before cowering inside due to heat exhaustion and a feeling similar to being blasted by a hot hair dryer on my knuckles. Felt so good to have it running again though! That's the good news.. but there are definitely still issues to be addressed. Since I am finally sitting here cracking a cold one after a long days work, I'll elaborate.


    First of all.. since I'm brand new here and (mostly) brand new to the world of motorcycles, Here's a pic of my 2004 TW with 14.3k (exactly) miles on the od.Attachment 22536IMG_8121.JPG
    I had the idea to bring it with me to Jackson Hole, Wyoming where I just spent the entire summer living out of my 34ft RV named Georgie Boy... and let me say it was the best -impulse purchase I could have ever made!!! I have never owned a motorcycle, I am a semi-experienced mountain biker, but let me just say that having motorized transportation on some of these trails and 4x4 roads.... combined with the pristine nature of the Jackson Hole valley and mountainous backcountry trails... was simply bliss. This bike is so much fun to ride and I feel like it was the perfect intro into the world of bikes! I love it already.


    I bought the bike in April with 12,000 miles on it from a guy in Las Vegas. He rode it lightly on paved roads near Lake Mead mostly and claimed to have it serviced regularly. It was in spotless condition when I drove out there to see it (like I said, impulsive...) so I rolled the dice. I feel like I got a good deal on it for $1,500. I brought it to a Yamaha certified service center and had a routine service check with an oil change, valve check, brake adjustment, etc.. Pretty damn good working shape. So I got licensed while still in Arizona and spend a good month riding around my neighborhood getting comfortable with gears and becoming confident in traffic. Once I would arrive in a spot with my RV I would drop the bike off the back and use it as my main transportation/portal to the unknown. I spent all summer navigating scenic national park roads and trailhead access points, climbing rocky mountainous ridges, navigating canyonous washed-out 4x4 roads that would require clearance of monster truck proportions, and eventually working up to packed dirt/dense forest single-track trails. Overall it was an amazing experience and this amazing machine brought me to some amazing places that I could have never dreamed of!

    Haha ok anyways I made it through 3 months without any mechanical issues.. until the very last day in Wyoming when I bent in my shift lever via smacking a rock, and therefore could only shift up by using my heel since I couldn't get my toe underneath it. Still rideable to get back to the RV and I was leaving the next day anyways. Fast forward 3 days... I left Zion when, in an effort to avoid returning home, I decided to check out the Pink Coral Sand Dunes and stay the night there. This was when I added salt to the wound (actually I gouged the wound completely open) by revving my shit so high that the chain came off and locked up inside the crank case. I've explained all this, yes, but I have pics this time!
    ---Allow me to take this opportunity to thank the AWESOME Canadians (that we all had some good fun poking at) for generously sharing with me those delicious bud light limes (ahem) while I stayed and watched the beautiful sunset with you. It was truly awesome meeting you and the story of rescuing me from that sandy doom was even cooler! After I derailed, they graciously turned allll the way around for me in the pitch darkness to rescue me with the one tie-down strap he had with his commander. We hoisted the rear end of the bike up with my awesome Cyclerack and the result is this: IMG_6824.JPG I was obviously upset with the state of the bike but their company and the eventual return to my RV nest, bike in tow, was a funny and memorable experience. I never exchanged contact info with you guys but I hope to see you again!! And I'd love my helmet back that I forgot in your awesome gator too...if you ever read this for whatever reason.

    ALRIGHT this is becoming a novel. Thank you MMJ and this local IPA. Anyways fast forward to today, one month later when I finally get the energy to assess the damage fully. My chain is significantly looser now and has some visible damage to it. Since I am the definition of a noob with this being my first post, I'll exercise my right to ask noob questions without researching... How much should it cost to replace a chain/sprocket with a pro mechanic? Is it a job I could do with the right tools and attitude? I'm decently handy and, like I mentioned, have torn apart and rebuilt smaller zenoah RC engines in my Go-Ped racing days, but these are much smaller 30-50cc spindle driven machines, and I have no experience with a drive chain or any chain besides chain smoking on a weekend night at the bars. Should I be able to follow the service manuals and poke you guys for help along the way to get the job done? I'd love to learn on my own.

    When it derailed, the force of the chain must have jammed up and cracked the top of the left crankcase. The crack still seems very strong to the touch and the pieces are firmly locked where they are. How necessary is it to replace this? IMG_8118.JPG

    Also, I was quoted 90 minutes labor to change my fork boot covers out, plus the cost of them. Is this accurate? Mine have split in 2 places each. I would assume you have to drop the whole wheel off.. seems amateur enough but is it something I should bother fiddling with or is there a simpler fix/it can wait?

    Also I just noticed that there are 2 lines running out of my carb that don't connect to anything at all... is this normal? I took a picture earlier but it's really bad. It's the one coming straight out of the bottom and also near the top left side next to the throttle linkage I think. There's also a THIRD one coming out from under my seat near the rear shock that also runs down without connecting to anything. Again, this is my noob right to ask these questions without doing research. I promise I am a resourceful person and I will check the forums before I write another freaking book on here.. but I am now officially tired so I'll just leave it at that. Thanks for any feedback and I look forward to tearing this beast up! I love my TW!

    So, in true essay form, I will conclude by saying that my bike is now running SMOKE-FREE, with 2.3k of my own amazing miles on it, functional but in need of some TLC. Firstly, I'll follow your advice TWilight and change the oil immediately. After the oil change, a new chain/sprocket (awaiting your opinions on DIY or professional, also cost $$), hopefully no need to replace the cracked left crank case cover, figuring out the carb hose situation, and giving the rear brake a good greasing, I should have a good working bike again! The only thing left to do is to finally wire up those sweet LED tie-down hooks I bought on ebay a while back. Would have been real useful in those f*ing sand dunes at night!! Thanks guys!
    Attached Images Attached Images
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