Electrical Problem - Dead Bike
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Thread: Electrical Problem - Dead Bike

  1. #1
    Senior Member TrialRun's Avatar
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    Electrical Problem - Dead Bike

    New 2017 TW w/ ~250 miles. Turned off engine to take a picture and then when I turned the key on, nothing. No headlight, no starter, just dead. Was on a hill and just bump started it and rode back to camp. Turned off, turned on and same thing. Checked battery and it had 12.5V. Not fully charged, but good enough to run headlight or turn starter. But if I turn the key to ON, voltage drops to zero. So circuit open if key on.

    Any suggestions before I start walking through the bike wth the volt meter? Anyone that can say, "I had that happen and XXXX was the problem."
    Last edited by TrialRun; 06-08-2017 at 08:34 PM. Reason: spelling
    Greg
    '17 TW200, '13 DR650, '07 HD Heritage Classic, '15 HD StreetGlide (deceased), '75 Yamaha 650 (deceased)

  2. #2
    rbm
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    Senior Member rbm's Avatar
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    Sounds like a bad battery to me. It's still under warranty, I'd take it back to the dealer no matter what...
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  3. #3
    Senior Member GCFishguy's Avatar
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    "I had that happen, and the essentially new battery I had bought was the problem." I think some have a defect right out of the gate and when they fail, they fail hard.

    Pretty much identical thing happened to me....battery was about the same age as yours would be... I had bought a new BikeMaster AGM battery for my 2015 as a preemptive measure...it lasted 5 or so rides and then did exactly what yours did. No warning, seemed fine all day during stopping and restarting, then suddenly, dead as a stone.
    After getting it home and trickle charging it all night, the charger was happy with the job it had done and was saying 'green'. As soon as I turned the ignition on, it dropped to a flat zero. Took my brand new AGM battery out, got my money back from where I bought it, put my factory wet cell back in and have been running it since.

    Thread here, if you'd care to read...
    https://tw200forum.com/forum/technica...ssistance.html
    Last edited by GCFishguy; 06-08-2017 at 07:26 PM.

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  5. #4
    Senior Member SportsterDoc's Avatar
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    12.5 volts is 50% discharged, if key off.
    Are battery cables good?
    Both cables, both ends?
    TrialRun likes this.
    2014 Honda CB1100
    2018 Yamaha XT250
    2016 Moto Guzzi V7 II
    2017 Yamaha TW200
    2012 Triumph Bonneville
    2002 H-D Sportster 1200 Sport
    2003 H-D Sportster 883
    1976 Honda CB750F
    1975 Honda CB360
    1970 Yamaha CT1
    1972 Yamaha CT2
    1972 Yamaha AT2/CT2
    1970 Honda SL350
    1970 Honda CL350
    1967 Honda CL160
    1967 Honda CB160
    1962 Honda CA110

  6. #5
    Senior Member TrialRun's Avatar
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    I decided to wash the bike. It was filthy after my trip. I think that she was just upset at us cleaning everything else before her. All well now.

    Real Solution:
    My father's advice growing up (that's from an AT&T Bell Labs EE electronics and communications specialist) - "No matter what you think is wrong, check the battery cable connections first. If that's not the problem, take them off, clean them, and put them on again. If that's not the problem, do it again."

    So, it was the piece of angled metal that connects the battery lug to everything you attach. The bolt on top where I tightened the trickle charger pigtail was fine. But the bolt connecting the metal to the lug was loose. I wiggled the battery and it arced across. Tightened the bolt and all works perfect.

    Unknown.jpeg

    So, SportsterDoc wins the prize for suggesting "Both cables, both ends."

    Thanks for the suggestions.
    Greg
    '17 TW200, '13 DR650, '07 HD Heritage Classic, '15 HD StreetGlide (deceased), '75 Yamaha 650 (deceased)

  7. #6
    Super Moderator littletommy's Avatar
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    ^^^This is the best post of the day^^^ An easy fix success story.
    1st John 1:9
    If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    John 3:16
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 3:17
    For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    Hidden Content <<<Click here. Hidden Content

  8. #7
    Junior Member brytheguy's Avatar
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    First post I've made on the forum but this is the exact problem I am having with a 2009 with <1000 miles I purchased last week. Prior owner said he just replaced the battery before I bought it. Drove it home for about 1 hr and now I have the same problems you did. For me, I don't think it's a connection problem. Battery shows 12.5 volts but then key on and it drops to less than one. I can jump it with cables, but as soon as I disconnect, multimeter on the battery terminals show around 9volts while running. I checked the the 3 stator leads with a multimeter and they are responsive to RPMs. I'm thinking my problem is the rectifier/regulator not putting out enough volts to recharge the battery above 12V. I haven't bought a replacement rec/reg yet. Any thoughts before I take the plunge and buy a new one?

  9. #8
    Super Moderator littletommy's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum!!

    In order to correctly analyze a charging system, you must have a known good battery or the readings can be faulty. I would suggest taking the battery out and having it load tested first.
    SportsterDoc and socalnative like this.
    1st John 1:9
    If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    John 3:16
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 3:17
    For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    Hidden Content <<<Click here. Hidden Content

  10. #9
    Senior Member SportsterDoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brytheguy View Post
    First post I've made on the forum but this is the exact problem I am having with a 2009 with <1000 miles I purchased last week. Prior owner said he just replaced the battery before I bought it. Drove it home for about 1 hr and now I have the same problems you did. For me, I don't think it's a connection problem. Battery shows 12.5 volts but then key on and it drops to less than one. I can jump it with cables, but as soon as I disconnect, multimeter on the battery terminals show around 9volts while running. I checked the the 3 stator leads with a multimeter and they are responsive to RPMs. I'm thinking my problem is the rectifier/regulator not putting out enough volts to recharge the battery above 12V. I haven't bought a replacement rec/reg yet. Any thoughts before I take the plunge and buy a new one?
    Welcome to the TW200 Forum!

    Step one: Charge, then load test battery
    Step two: Recheck charging voltage

    Below was compiled for a Harley-Davidson Sportster forum, so 3e and 3f need to be amended expanded for CDI.
    I have over 12,000 posts on that forum and I think about 1/2 have to do with poor connections/loose grounds!
    This was a problem for the rigid mounted motors and even worse for the rubber mounts (2004 up).
    A TW may not shake as much as a H-D, but checking battery cables is still a good idea.

    Just because a battery is new, does not necessarily mean that it is good.

    OTOH, a new battery may have been purchased due to a charging issue and your suspicions of the regulator may be spot on.

    State of Charge (AGM battery)
    12.8+ 100%
    12.6 75%
    12.3 50%
    12.0 25%
    11.8 Zero

    Voltage Readings
    1. KEY OFF battery voltage, at the battery: Normal is 12.8.
    If just taken off a charger, voltage may be 13 point something. The battery needs to sit for a while (or turn on the key for ~3 seconds, then turn off) before a reading is useful.
    In the case of a bad cell, the other cells overcharge and give an almost normal reading, until load is applied.
    • If lower, then battery is discharged and needs charging or
    • Battery has a bad cell

    2. KEY ON battery voltage (headlight on): Normal is not under about 12.5 initially, but will decline the longer the headlight is on, without the motor running. Under no load, 12.5 volts indicates severe discharge, but under headlight load, it is just voltage drop.
    • If lower, then battery is discharged and needs charging or
    • Battery has a bad cell or
    • Battery cable(s) have high resistance

    3. KEY ON battery voltage while cranking: Normal is not under 10.5 volts
    • If lower, then battery is discharged and needs charging or
    • Battery has a bad cell or
    • Battery cable(s) have high resistance or
    • Starter is drawing too much current
    • Solenoid contacts have high resistance

    4. If the bike is running, battery voltage at about 2,500 RPMs should be 13.8 to 14.8
    • If not, then check stator resistance and regulator ground
    • If the stator is not shorted to ground and resistance is within spec, the regulator or regulator ground is suspect

    BASIC TROUBLE-SHOOTING SEQUENCE
    When the key and stop/run switches are on, but starter does not operate/no electrics, check voltages and insure that there is voltage past the keyed switch to all the fuses.

    If the battery is good, the keyed switch has no voltage drop, the fuses are good, then battery cables are a common problem. Check (inspect/tug) BOTH ends of BOTH battery cables, especially the frame/motor end of the negative cable.

    When a bike won’t start and yet the motor will turn over (starter will crank), my typical approach is –

    1. Does it kick over “normal”? The first 10 of my 15 bikes had kick starts and it was easy to feel the compression. Without that feature, pull the plugs and put a finger over the plug hole while cranking. If you’ve had the bike a while, the amount of pressure should feel normal. If you have a compression tester, all the better. If rings are not excessively worn, no hole burned in piston and valves operated normal, then move on to the next step.

    2. Were plugs wet, when pulled, after trying to start? If not, check for fuel flow (does accelerator pump squirt?...if not (and pump diaphragm is intact), then check if -
    a. petcock screen not clogged?
    b. fuel tank cap venting?
    b. petcock flowing?
    c. fuel in bowl (open drain screw is quick way to check)?
    d. if a-c are OK, then remove carb bowl and check float valve not restricted with debris
    e. float level correct?
    f. If unsure, does starter fluid get it going? If so, then it is a fuel/fuel mixture issue. If you have fuel, then move on to the next step.

    3. With plugs out, plug in high voltage boot, plug prong grounded (typically to cylinder/head cooling fins), kick the motor or operate the starter. Check for strong bright blue spark. If none, or weak, then check -
    a. voltage to coil primary (should be same as battery voltage)
    b. measure coil resistance
    c. check high voltage plug wire (both ends)
    d. check spark plug condition
    e. check coil primary connection
    f. If EVERYTHING checks good, but still no spark, then it may be the CDI
    Last edited by SportsterDoc; 06-09-2017 at 12:33 PM.
    littletommy likes this.
    2014 Honda CB1100
    2018 Yamaha XT250
    2016 Moto Guzzi V7 II
    2017 Yamaha TW200
    2012 Triumph Bonneville
    2002 H-D Sportster 1200 Sport
    2003 H-D Sportster 883
    1976 Honda CB750F
    1975 Honda CB360
    1970 Yamaha CT1
    1972 Yamaha CT2
    1972 Yamaha AT2/CT2
    1970 Honda SL350
    1970 Honda CL350
    1967 Honda CL160
    1967 Honda CB160
    1962 Honda CA110

  11. #10
    Senior Member SportsterDoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by littletommy View Post
    Welcome to the forum!!

    In order to correctly analyze a charging system, you must have a known good battery or the readings can be faulty. I would suggest taking the battery out and having it load tested first.
    Duh...shoulda read your post before I responded!
    littletommy likes this.
    2014 Honda CB1100
    2018 Yamaha XT250
    2016 Moto Guzzi V7 II
    2017 Yamaha TW200
    2012 Triumph Bonneville
    2002 H-D Sportster 1200 Sport
    2003 H-D Sportster 883
    1976 Honda CB750F
    1975 Honda CB360
    1970 Yamaha CT1
    1972 Yamaha CT2
    1972 Yamaha AT2/CT2
    1970 Honda SL350
    1970 Honda CL350
    1967 Honda CL160
    1967 Honda CB160
    1962 Honda CA110

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