possible camchain misalignment?
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  1. #1
    Senior Member Drapes's Avatar
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    hey yall



    im riding a 2010 TW with 4800 km on it, all my doing. only mod is a clarke tank, everything else is stock. for a year or so, my bike ran like a dream- no/ minimal vibration. ive changed the oil and adjusted the valves myself with success of varying degrees . first service was done by dealership, at recommended km.



    i was a tad rough on it at first, got stuck in a couple muddy cutblocks and wound her right out at about 500 km :s.. didnt seem to affect it at all, ran well and dealership didnt seem to notice anything weird.



    for 10 months i saw no issue with the bike, aside from ticking after some time (assumed was valves, adjusted to spec- ticking receded for short while, but also had less top speed?)



    nothing to write home about, eventually the bike got back in the groove and i was maxing out at 115-120km/hr flatland again, yaay me



    then i went up the mountain



    after riding the bike with one hand for about 20 km (beer was calling) and shifting between 2nd and 1st without the clutch, i noticed no difference in performance, just a bit of slacking in the chain



    i ended up getting into a happy ditch, with a happy stick. the happy stick went between the rear sprocket and the chain and subsequently derailed the chain from the sprocket. i didnt notice at first, and kept working the gas to get free. eventually logic yelled STOP! and the chain was reset (quite easily i might add yayy snails) i resumed my decent.



    whilst riding home, on public roadways, i ran out of gas and had to switch to reserve. ( enter the clarke tank)

    for some reason, once i switched to reserve i would bog out in 4th occasionally.. maybe just bad gas?



    got home, went to bed, all was well.



    woke up and went for a ride. insane vibrations compared to previous performance, also more noticable ticking.





    So here is where im at.



    The chain derailment put a crack in the case above the front sprocket

    TDC in the site hole doesnt line up exactly with the line on the cam shaft sprocket (does this matter? did i slip a tooth?)

    Cant seem to quiet down the ticking with valve adjustment, is this due to the possible misalignment of my cam chain/sprocket(s)?

    I put my thumb on the hole and i have compression at TDC, but i have more clearance at about 3 oclock (if the line on the cam chain sprocket is tdc) in comparison. was going to set my clearances here to see if it makes a difference.



    hopefully this is concise, srry for the rambling
    1989 Tw200
    1991 Tw200
    2008 WR250R
    2004 Ford Ranger FXR Lvl II

  2. #2
    Senior Member small's's Avatar
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    On the bottom of the swingarm in front of the rear sprocket is a plastic chain guide. Could that be bent or the bracket it goes in? I went over a log and slid down it one time and it bent and derailed my chain two times in a row. It took me a minute to figure it out. From what your explaining it is probably something else but i thought i'd through it out there.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Dave Nafziger's Avatar
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    As far as the notches on the cam and flywheel agreeing- they likely will not because the slack adjuster is on one side, not both symmetrically. As the tensioner presses the chain in, the cam sprocket will rotate clockwise, if the flywheel is on Top Dead Center. I checked mine when I did my valves yesterday, and I am a bit more than a 1/4 tooth off the mark. You set valves by the flywheel. Is the vibration in the engine, or only when you ride?

    GB

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  5. #4
    Senior Member Drapes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greybeard View Post
    As far as the notches on the cam and flywheel agreeing- they likely will not because the slack adjuster is on one side, not both symmetrically. As the tensioner presses the chain in, the cam sprocket will rotate clockwise, if the flywheel is on Top Dead Center. I checked mine when I did my valves yesterday, and I am a bit more than a 1/4 tooth off the mark. You set valves by the flywheel. Is the vibration in the engine, or only when you ride?

    GB


    thanks for the reply, im going to bounce some of these ideas off my buddy's at the ranch.. at least if i break it there it can be fixed



    just to clarify, valves are only to be adjusted at tdc? im guessing the flywheel is pretty deliberate in its positioning, and wouldnt have any room to get banged out of whack? my concern is that i may have misaligned something and therefore my valves are being adjusted improperly. im at .005 exhaust and .003 intake but still get a wild click that increases pace with throttle (dont notice the click when its rung out/ on the road. mostly noticable at idle. no loss of power tho, just vibration. feels like i slapped my hands on ice after an hour ride.
    1989 Tw200
    1991 Tw200
    2008 WR250R
    2004 Ford Ranger FXR Lvl II

  6. #5
    Senior Member TWBARR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drapes View Post
    thanks for the reply, im going to bounce some of these ideas off my buddy's at the ranch.. at least if i break it there it can be fixed



    just to clarify, valves are only to be adjusted at tdc? im guessing the flywheel is pretty deliberate in its positioning, and wouldnt have any room to get banged out of whack? my concern is that i may have misaligned something and therefore my valves are being adjusted improperly. im at .005 exhaust and .003 intake but still get a wild click that increases pace with throttle (dont notice the click when its rung out/ on the road. mostly noticable at idle. no loss of power tho, just vibration. feels like i slapped my hands on ice after an hour ride.


    I had the same ticking occurring when I first did my valves. The cam timing was way off. I adjusted to TDC and cam at near top of notch (the notch was not dead center). There is 360* of rotation. The first time I adjusted the valves I was 180* off on my rotation.



    In the valve adjustment thread there is a trick to know when your valves should be adjusted. If you take your spark plug out and turn to TDC you should be able to put a pencil or straw in the spark plug hole. Note the depth of the straw. Turn crack around another 360* and note the depth on the straw. The shortest depth should be your starting point for your valve adjustment.



    It also could be possible that the cam spring tensioner might have been too loose allowing for the chain to jump teeth. I would head over the valve adjustment thread. Or follow this step-by-step tutorial. DIY vavle Adjust

  7. #6
    Senior Member Dave Nafziger's Avatar
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    What does it sound like idling? I am still not sure if you are describing a motor or a drive-train issue. Since the case broke at the front drive sprocket, I would check there- look at it, and or ride it and feel for vibration at the crack. Or jack up the rear wheel in a secure way and start it to listen to it. My stethoscope is a big screwdriver, plastic end against my ear, business end probing. I think you will find it easily. BTW, the screwdriver method will not work well on people. GB

  8. #7
    Senior Member pgilles's Avatar
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    Is the vibration from the engine while idling? Or while at speed with the bike?



    Take off your cam cover (only a couple of bolts) and check your valves when it's at its TDC position and verify the cam is at TDC (the cam can be 180 degrees from TDC and your valves would be tight at that location since both valves are open and the tick mark on the cam not lining up with the tick mark on the case, if that's the case rotate the flywheel another 360). If it skipped a tooth, then you better pull out your cam chain tensioner and repair/replace it, as well as inspect all links in the chain and the teeth on the sprockets.



    If the vibrations are while at speed, maybe the crack in the case also propagated to the outer driveshaft bearing and allowing it to wobble? Or a bent driveshaft? Or a bent front/rear sprocket?



    Sold bike.



    Youtube vids of old TW's acceleration:

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  9. #8
    Senior Member Drapes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmtg View Post
    Is the vibration from the engine while idling? Or while at speed with the bike?



    Take off your cam cover (only a couple of bolts) and check your valves when it's at its TDC position and verify the cam is at TDC (the cam can be 180 degrees from TDC and your valves would be tight at that location since both valves are open and the tick mark on the cam not lining up with the tick mark on the case, if that's the case rotate the flywheel another 360). If it skipped a tooth, then you better pull out your cam chain tensioner and repair/replace it, as well as inspect all links in the chain and the teeth on the sprockets.



    If the vibrations are while at speed, maybe the crack in the case also propagated to the outer driveshaft bearing and allowing it to wobble? Or a bent driveshaft? Or a bent front/rear sprocket?





    the vibration seems to occur at high rpm, either in neutral with a rev of the throttle or during travel whilst accelerating to change gears. I was suspicious of the oil being fouled and decided to change it, what a mess. It was black as molasses and 200ml low Im now wondering if i didnt muck something up by running it with low oil. My oil filter was caked with black residue, not consistent with the metal flakes i saw at regular intervals in the past. That being said, the bike perfomed wonderfully with two people on it, crawling up a freshly graded haul road in 3rd, and a hard ride up a washout picking my way over watermelon sized boulders and culverts hard on the ass of my buddy on his ktm250 endurocross. The gears are smoother since changing the oil (expected) and the ticking seems to be quieter.



    the vibration is manageable by shifting high to keep revs down, but it is just so different than it was before that i would at least like to know why my bike is no longer a smooth glide.



    Ill try and get some pictures posted of the crack in the housing, but i dont think it affected anything due to the position of it.



    also, i notice in your picture that the tic on the cam sprocket is at about 4 oclock.. is that while you are at TDC? When im at TDC as verified through the site hole and with a straw in the sparkplug, my tick is at nearly 12 oclock. my concern was that it at about 12:04 respectively. i assumed that the cam and the fly wheel would be set both at 12 oclock, whick is why i thought i may have skipped a tooth. can anyone verify this? (the position of the cam and fly wheel on assembly/ to spec.)



    i appreciate all your ideas
    1989 Tw200
    1991 Tw200
    2008 WR250R
    2004 Ford Ranger FXR Lvl II

  10. #9
    Senior Member pgilles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drapes View Post
    the vibration seems to occur at high rpm, either in neutral with a rev of the throttle or during travel whilst accelerating to change gears. I was suspicious of the oil being fouled and decided to change it, what a mess. It was black as molasses and 200ml low Im now wondering if i didnt muck something up by running it with low oil. My oil filter was caked with black residue, not consistent with the metal flakes i saw at regular intervals in the past. That being said, the bike perfomed wonderfully with two people on it, crawling up a freshly graded haul road in 3rd, and a hard ride up a washout picking my way over watermelon sized boulders and culverts hard on the ass of my buddy on his ktm250 endurocross. The gears are smoother since changing the oil (expected) and the ticking seems to be quieter.



    the vibration is manageable by shifting high to keep revs down, but it is just so different than it was before that i would at least like to know why my bike is no longer a smooth glide.



    Ill try and get some pictures posted of the crack in the housing, but i dont think it affected anything due to the position of it.



    also, i notice in your picture that the tic on the cam sprocket is at about 4 oclock.. is that while you are at TDC? When im at TDC as verified through the site hole and with a straw in the sparkplug, my tick is at nearly 12 oclock. my concern was that it at about 12:04 respectively. i assumed that the cam and the fly wheel would be set both at 12 oclock, whick is why i thought i may have skipped a tooth. can anyone verify this? (the position of the cam and fly wheel on assembly/ to spec.)



    i appreciate all your ideas


    Ignore where the tic is on the cam in that picture (it was from TeeWee's camshaft installation thread), the engine wasn't at TDC. It should be at 12 o'clock for TDC, its tic mark will match up to the tic mark on the cam housing. That picture was just to show what's behind that cover and to not be intimidated by taking it off, thereby allowing you to insure the cam is at TDC compression stroke (tic at 12) not the exhaust stroke (tic at 6) when checking valves.



    I wouldn't be concerned with 12:04, probably just some cam chain stretch going on.
    Sold bike.



    Youtube vids of old TW's acceleration:

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  11. #10
    Senior Member Drapes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmtg View Post
    Ignore where the tic is on the cam in that picture (it was from TeeWee's camshaft installation thread), the engine wasn't at TDC. It should be at 12 o'clock for TDC, its tic mark will match up to the tic mark on the cam housing. That picture was just to show what's behind that cover and to not be intimidated by taking it off, thereby allowing you to insure the cam is at TDC compression stroke (tic at 12) not the exhaust stroke (tic at 6) when checking valves.



    I wouldn't be concerned with 12:04, probably just some cam chain stretch going on.


    thanks for the piece of mind, im going to see if my auto adjuster is working properly on the cam chain
    1989 Tw200
    1991 Tw200
    2008 WR250R
    2004 Ford Ranger FXR Lvl II

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