Ethanol problems.
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  1. #1
    Member Revolverman's Avatar
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    Does anyone here still use ethanol in their motorcycles and would you use 100% real gas if you had a choice ? (like if you could find 100% real gas)



    I am now officially using only 100% real gas in everything around my house except my vehicles.



    I could tell you a few horror stories about my boats motors in the last year.



    Revolverman.
    The older I get, the more I realize it's easier to be kind in most situations.

  2. #2
    Senior Member peruano's Avatar
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    FYI, Lots of folks use ethanol laced gas because thats all they can get "conveniently" and for some "at all". I pay about 11 cents per gallon more to get ethanol free gas (there are two stations in my town of 5000 folks that have no ethanol gas. I'm not one to say ethanol will be the end of the world (unless we drink it all), but I do believe it reduces rust in gas tanks and provides a bit more power for the octane rating. Lets not knock our friends who use ethanol, but lets thank our stars that we can still buy gas without it by looking farther and digging deeper in our wallets. Tom
    Tom - TW200 2002, Kawasaki VN 500 2006

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  3. #3
    Senior Member Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolverman View Post
    Does anyone here still use ethanol in their motorcycles and would you use 100% real gas if you had a choice ? (like if you could find 100% real gas)



    I am now officially using only 100% real gas in everything around my house except my vehicles.



    I could tell you a few horror stories about my boats motors in the last year.



    Revolverman.
    I would use ethanol free gas if there was a station nearby. According to pure gas.org the nearest ethanol station is 150 miles away. I run around 20 engines here and last fall I bought SEF racing fuel and used it to winterize all the small engines both 4 and 2 cycle and my spring starts were back to normal. The boating/marine got, and is still getting hit, particularly hard. The SEF was $15.00/gal. Interesting side note- the smell of ethanol free gas (real refined gas) was like a trip back in time. OM
    "It's more fun going fast on a slow bike than going slow on a fast bike" UK

    1994 TW200, 2009 F800GS loaded,

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  5. #4
    Member Revolverman's Avatar
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    I do realize lots of people still have to use it. I just wondered for those of us who has a choice, would you rather use it or real gas ?



    I did not realize just how bad it was until last year when my son called me and told me his can had about 1/3 water in it from setting for about 3 months.



    We then quickly checked both my boats and both had water in them, one turned out ok after draining and adding stabil, the other is still missing from clogged carbs.



    If you do a search on you tube for "ethanol", you will be shocked at what you see from 100s of small, medium and larger engine techs/mechanics. They show you what they find in their carbs daily.



    I have never seen anything like it in my life. One demo showed a few ounces of ethanol in a jar with small fan blowing on it for just a few minutes. Within a few minutes there was water in the bottom of the jar due to alcohol cooling and attracting water.



    He said the marine industry was devastated by ethanol. They now say do not fill tanks, just put in what you need to run out in a day in boats because if they set after use it will have water in the tank.



    I will never use it in my motors unless they stop making real gas near me.



    I feel sorry for those who don't have a choice.



    Revolverman.
    The older I get, the more I realize it's easier to be kind in most situations.

  6. #5
    Senior Member jpuck's Avatar
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    100% gas all the way.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Dave Nafziger's Avatar
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    I found a place about 10 miles away that has 91 octane without ethanol. 5.199/gallon, or 90 cents more than 87-E10. I get 1 mph more out it. Doesn't compute well, unless I am getting mileage a whole lot better than I think. GB

  8. #7
    Senior Member TWisty's Avatar
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    There are two stations with real gas in our town of 2,100.



    We use real gas in our cars too.



    It's about 3% more expensive, but our mileage goes from 17 to 21, a 23% improvement.

  9. #8
    Banned qwerty's Avatar
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    Didn't we have a marine tech on this forum telling us ethanol was no big deal? Obviously, you're a bunch of whiners.



    Ethanol is a fine fuel. It works quite well in engines specifically designed to make achieve maximum volumetric efficiency with fuels sharing ethanol's properties, if the negative properties of ethanol, such as its affinity for absorbing water, tendency to degrade practically any inexpensive materials with which it comes in contact, its difficult vaporization at low temperatures which results in poor starting in cold weather, ad nauseum. AA/AD dragsters for example. My little pylon racing engines that make 4hp per cubic inch for another. If you have a generally warm to hot tropical or subtropical climate, millions of acres of swampland, no existing petroleum refining capability, and millions of slaves to grow sugarcane from which the ethanol is made, ethanol is a good path to energy independence for a third-world nation. Argentina, for instance. Any other circumstances result in ethanol being a fiscal, social, and political disaster for all but those involved in its production. United States of America, for instance. Funny thing, the corn farmers making $$$$ on tthe ethanol fiasco around here send their wives in their Navigators and Suburbans to the Co-op for E0.



    I'm not surprised that 91 octane E0 showed little advantage over 87 octane E10. Tdub suffers reduced power and efficiency with 91 octane E0 about equal to that of E10. The colder the weather, the more problematic high octane becomes. I believe this is due to overcooling in the lower portion of the cylinder just prior to ignition that causes fuel condensation, just as water is "compressed out" of air in a pressure tank.



    If you can get E0, run it. You'll enjoy 17-25% better fuel efficiency in most engines, more than making up for the increased cost per gallon.



    If you cannot buy E0, removing ethanol from E10 is relatively simple. Add a bit of water to E10, stir well, allow to settle, and the ethanol and water will settle to the bottom of the tank in short order. Drain the water/ethanol mix, use it as weed killer, and enjoy the E0 that remains. If you start with 91 (R+M)/2 octane E10 you'll end up with about 87 octane E0, perfect for TWs.



    Before I had a local source of E0 I made my own. My current ethanol remover consists of a tall 40 gallon water heater tank. The tank is inverted because this particular tank has domed top and bottom, with the dooms rising upward from the welds at the cylinder wall. Therefore the tank was inverted and mounted on a table. The now top of the tank has a 1-inch bung welded on and a brass gas valve to which a funnel is threaded, and a second smaller bung capped with a screened 3/8-inch gas valve as a vent for filling and draining. A 1/2-inch valve in the bottom is used for draining through a clear plastic hose, which serves as an easy means of tapping the water and ethanol, then as a convenient way to fill gas cans.



    I always measure the water going in and water/ethanol coming out, compute the difference to determine the actual amount of ethanol removed. Usually, E10 runs anywhere from 8-12% ethanol, but I've seen as much as 16-20% on several occasions, and once, 22%. The batch-to-batch consistency is pitiful, at best. Since 12-16% mixtures are rare, I expect the actual mixing procedures lack accuracy when used as directed, and the occasional batch is double dosed. Obviously, some wholesalers have quality control issues. These inconsistencies occur with every local source of E10, some worse than others. Is it any wonder trying to jet a carb properly for a particular fuel is so difficult these days?



    When I usually start with a premium E10, I end up with an excellent fuel for Tdub, the increased cost of premium more than offset by the increased fuel efficiency of E0. If I start with 87 E10, I add toluene to restore octane at the same volume as the ethanol removed--it's pretty much a 1:1 swap as an octane enhancer with ethanol. Toluene costs about $8/gallon in 10 gallon drums. 1 gallon treats about 10 gallons of purified E10, so the net fuel cost of octane restored E0 is only slightly higher than E10 due to the increased fuel efficiency of the E0. That is a small price to pay to avoid the problens associated with using E10.




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