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Thread: Hard starting

  1. #1
    Junior Member cjnett1's Avatar
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    I just purchased a 2006 TW200 from a guy that bought it new, rode it for a short time (425 miles) and then parked it. It wasn't garaged as there was a lot of corrosion in most of the electrical plugs and whatnot. First things first.

    Took the carb off and cleaned out all the sludge and varnish. Replaced the pilot valve. replaced the main jet. float and needle replaced as well. also replaced the choke assembly.

    Bike starts, idles and runs fine. no smoke, no backfire, no lack of power.

    run the bike around for a while and it cranks and cranks but will not start. Let sit for an hour or so and it fires right up and runs as previously mentioned.

    run it around again and still refuses to start.

    Replaced the following:

    Wiring harness.

    Coil.

    Spark plug.

    Spark plug cap.

    CDI box.



    Battery load test fine.

    12 volts (ish) measured when off.

    12.8-13.0 volts when running. Leads me to believe the stator and rectifier are both good.



    Again, it will start just fine after setting for a period of time. Runs and drives great. shut if off.....no start.



    One curious thing i found, I used an inductive timing light on the plug wire. While cranking (in a no start condition) it'll spark once or twice then nothing. No continuous spark while cranking...



    Please help.

  2. #2
    Senior Member jbfla's Avatar
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    I wish I could supply an answer, but sadly no.



    It seems like you have replaced all the likely suspects.



    A few of us have had to use the "blip" method of starting a warm/hot engine. Just push and quickly release the starter button, and it starts up. If we continue to hold down the starter button, it cranks and cranks. Though eventually it starts.



    This may be related to your lack of spark after the first couple of cranks. Haven't solved the problem yet. But will follow this thread in hopes of a solution.



    jb
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  3. #3
    Senior Member FortPayne's Avatar
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    Did you replace with a band new cdi or a used one?
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  5. #4
    Junior Member cjnett1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort Payne View Post
    Did you replace with a band new cdi or a used one?
    Brand new OEM

  6. #5
    Junior Member cjnett1's Avatar
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    I really have no history with this bike. I'm no mechanical slouch by any means. The one or two sparks shouldn't really be that difficult to track down. I picked up the bike for a steal but I'm rapidly approaching the "dumping too much money" threshold!

  7. #6
    Senior Member heyduke's Avatar
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    You don't mention replacing the battery. 12 volts ish? is really a little weak. Especially if the test was not under load I know Iknow you are going to say it cranks fine but that can be decieving with a TW. I am guessing that you don't have a kick start. Have you tried to bump start it when it is warm and won't start with the starter. Try that, if it starts by bump starting it then I would replace that battery next.

  8. #7
    Senior Member B-dub's Avatar
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    Good advice from Heyduke about trying a bump start to rule out some other possibilities.



    Unfortunately your situation isn't unique. Just a few posts under your's is a post about another member's TW with the same symptoms. The post is here. In that post Lizrdbrth (veteran TW savvy forum member) offered a good explanation of the problem and what to do about it. There's some other good input there as well.
    My handle is B-dub, I ride a T-dub, and drive a V-dub.

  9. #8
    Junior Member cjnett1's Avatar
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    Can I assume that the starter might be drawing too many amps? I've tried bump starting it several times and that just yields the walk of shame (pushing te bike back to the garage). I'll tear the starter down and take a look at it anyway. Not sure I completely understand the reference to an "arcing" relay though.

    I have tried starting it with a booster hooked up to the battery when it doesn't want to fire. Great starter speed...still one to two "sparks" (measured with the timing light) then no more spark. With the booster hooked up that should eliminate the battery and slow starter speed.

    I'm really stuck on the spark issue. Or lack thereof.

  10. #9
    Senior Member ezman671's Avatar
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    I had a 96 that did the same thing. But I had a kick starter. It would always start easily with just 1 quick kick when warm.

    Like others have said, I bet your starter is just not spinning it fast enough.



    Make sure all your starter wiring connections and relays are in good shape. Maybe just a poor connection somewhere in the starter circuit.



    Good luck!

  11. #10
    Senior Member lizrdbrth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjnett1 View Post
    Can I assume that the starter might be drawing too many amps? I've tried bump starting it several times and that just yields the walk of shame (pushing te bike back to the garage). I'll tear the starter down and take a look at it anyway. Not sure I completely understand the reference to an "arcing" relay though.

    I have tried starting it with a booster hooked up to the battery when it doesn't want to fire. Great starter speed...still one to two "sparks" (measured with the timing light) then no more spark. With the booster hooked up that should eliminate the battery and slow starter speed.

    I'm really stuck on the spark issue. Or lack thereof.




    Your starter solenoid contains a set of points. They interupt the fat positive wire and act as a switch. When everything is groovy the faces of the points meet each other perfectly with no resistence and your starter turns full speed. As they age they become oxidized and pitted and when power is applied they "arc", like a welder. Or more like a sightly loose battery connection, heating up the points and slowing down the starter.



    When you jump the solenoid you take the solenoid points out of the equation. It's just one of the checks in diagnosing your problem.



    In order, the voltage required to generate a spark is dependent first on cranking speed, then on a good pulse coil, cdi and ignition coil and on good electrical connections everywhere in between.



    One other thing you can try which will indicate a slow starter is to remove the spark plug and with a full battery try your timing light again.



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