Black grunge in oil filter at 3K
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  1. #1
    Senior Member RockyTFS's Avatar
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    Does anyone recognize this gunk? I've seen it both times at the last two changes after going to Mobil 4T Racing 10W40.



    It feels like moly grease, smears with no perceptible grittiness at all, and cleans up with a brushstroke with some kerosene. There is no other junk in the filter except a tiny amount of small flakes and sometimes a whisker.



    The engine is running fine. I'm thinking it could be from the oil carbonizing during the occasional high temp/low speed trail section.
    Rocky
    2018 TW200
    2014 BMW R1200GS LC

  2. #2
    Senior Member lizrdbrth's Avatar
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    One possibility is that it's RTV.



    Done any work involving side cover removal or gasket replacement lately?



    Some high detergent oil can shake some pretty weird stuff loose, but running any oil before RTV has fully set can result in similar looking deposits.



    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

    Powdercoated '87 frame, extended swingarm, YZ fork legs, ATV tire, 14/55, XT350 tank, spliced quick-release seat, disc brake conversion, beeg headlight, beeger rack, Lizrdcooler, Lizrdventz and bunch of other stuff all covered in invisible ink.

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  3. #3
    Senior Member RockyTFS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizrdbrth View Post
    One possibility is that it's RTV.



    Done any work involving side cover removal or gasket replacement lately?



    Some high detergent oil can shake some pretty weird stuff loose, but running any oil before RTV has fully set can result in similar looking deposits.


    Nope, no work like that done....if it was RTV, it would not smear like a grease or be cleaned by one swipe with a kerosene loaded brush, unless it was less than 6 hours old, (even then).....at least in my experience.
    Rocky
    2018 TW200
    2014 BMW R1200GS LC

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  5. #4
    Senior Member B-dub's Avatar
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    Seems like I read one time about some kind of coating on the inside of the cases, or something like that coming loose. But you're right, from your description it seems more petroleum based.



    Found it here. Probably a long shot.
    My handle is B-dub, I ride a T-dub, and drive a V-dub.

  6. #5
    Senior Member lizrdbrth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B-dub View Post
    Seems like I read one time about some kind of coating on the inside of the cases, or something like that coming loose. But you're right, from your description it seems more petroleum based.



    Found it here. Probably a long shot.


    Man, I'd forgotten all about that. I don't think we ever nailed down what years had the coating. I've never seen it inside any TW I've worked on yet.



    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

    Powdercoated '87 frame, extended swingarm, YZ fork legs, ATV tire, 14/55, XT350 tank, spliced quick-release seat, disc brake conversion, beeg headlight, beeger rack, Lizrdcooler, Lizrdventz and bunch of other stuff all covered in invisible ink.

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  7. #6
    Senior Member Woofhound's Avatar
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    Possibly the detergent in the oil is loosening up carbon build up in the top of the head? Back when i ran Hondas in the woods my engine builder recommended running synthetic oil due to the fact that when you shut down a hot bike engine the dino oils can burn, break down, and build up crud around the valves and cams from the heat. common problem on the older honda RFVC 4 valve engines
    2009 WR250R

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  8. #7
    Senior Member RockyTFS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizrdbrth View Post
    Man, I'd forgotten all about that. I don't think we ever nailed down what years had the coating. I've never seen it inside any TW I've worked on yet.


    Mine is a 2011, so that scenario seems unlikely. Very interesting, though.
    Rocky
    2018 TW200
    2014 BMW R1200GS LC

  9. #8
    Senior Member RockyTFS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woofhound View Post
    Possibly the detergent in the oil is loosening up carbon build up in the top of the head? Back when i ran Hondas in the woods my engine builder recommended running synthetic oil due to the fact that when you shut down a hot bike engine the dino oils can burn, break down, and build up crud around the valves and cams from the heat. common problem on the older honda RFVC 4 valve engines


    Hmmn, so I could be seeing carbon from the first 2000 miles of running dino oil? I remember now that this is the FIRST oil change after going to synthetic at 2000 last fall. (I know, I know, I should have changed it out in May even though it only had 300 miles over the winter.)



    However, I did see some of this stuff in the filter last fall, and that too was only a 1000 mile interval. I just don't put enough miles on the bike, so I change it spring and fall, regardless of mileage.



    What we called "coking" of the oil is very common in aircraft engines, particularly turbochaged ones, if you didn't perform a two or three minute cooldown at idle. However, it looked more like coffee grounds and could be crushed between the fingernails.



    This stuff sure does look, feel, and act like carbon buildup, though, and thus the synthetic is doing it's job....I'm not about to pull the head to find out, but I will be using 1,000 mile changes for a while to see what happens.
    Rocky
    2018 TW200
    2014 BMW R1200GS LC

  10. #9
    Senior Member lizrdbrth's Avatar
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    In your original post you said it felt like moly grease with no grittiness. That would be RTV, probably from initial factory assembly given your low miles.



    If it's gritty and it persists beyond your next oil change it's most likely clutch material.



    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

    Powdercoated '87 frame, extended swingarm, YZ fork legs, ATV tire, 14/55, XT350 tank, spliced quick-release seat, disc brake conversion, beeg headlight, beeger rack, Lizrdcooler, Lizrdventz and bunch of other stuff all covered in invisible ink.

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  11. #10
    Senior Member elime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    .I'm not about to pull the head to find out...........................


    Maybe you can just take off the valve cover and see what needs to be seen.



    BTW, I found RTV in my other TW and it didn't look anything like that. It was in small thin sheets, firm, and non-spreadable.
    Long live the internal combustion engine!

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