Horrible carb problems
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  1. #1
    Junior Member illesg's Avatar
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    Okay, I messed up very badly and left the tank on for months of sitting, yeah with ethanol fuel (although I did have a stabilizer in it). Eventually, the bike (2009 w/ 1500 miles) wouldn't even start. I pulled the carb and found all manner of crud in it: brass corrosion, tars/sludges, films all over everything. Most of the jets were completely blocked with green crusty corrosion.



    I used spray Gumout and cleaned everything up as best I could, but it didn't faze the green stuff. So I (very carefully) used fine wires and even tiny drills to clean out the brass orifices. Only got green crud, never any brass shavings, so I'm pretty sure I didn't damage or enlarge any ports.



    At first, the bike ran great but just wouldn't idle. Took it apart again and found that the pilot jet was clogged, and a small tube that projects down into the float bowl was also blocked. Cleaned those out carefully drill/wire.



    Now, the thing is running super-rich like flooded all the time. Won't idle and barely runs, missing and 8-stroking. I've triple-checked the float level, while running, and it's fine, so I know the bowl isn't doing the flooding. I don't understand enough about how this carb works to figure out where the fuel is getting sucked through. I've screwed the pilot screw adjustment all the way closed without any discernible effect.



    I'm just about ready to pop $400 for a new carb to get out of this mess. Any suggestions or ideas?
    2009 (TW200Y) piggyback on our motorhome in a custom carrier

    Clark tank, custom seat, windshield, handguards, water bottle rack, Bestem T-box

  2. #2
    Senior Member flingwing1969's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gthree View Post
    Okay, I messed up very badly and left the tank on for months of sitting, yeah with ethanol fuel (although I did have a stabilizer in it). Eventually, the bike (2009 w/ 1500 miles) wouldn't even start. I pulled the carb and found all manner of crud in it: brass corrosion, tars/sludges, films all over everything. Most of the jets were completely blocked with green crusty corrosion.



    I'm just about ready to pop $400 for a new carb to get out of this mess. Any suggestions or ideas?


    Ouch! Don't spend that much though. I found them for as low as $268 new http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/...FY-14301-00-00 and several in the $270 range. Afraid that might be what's going to be needed though. Sounds bad. Damn alcohol attracts water.




  3. #3
    Junior Member illesg's Avatar
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    Hey thanks for the pointers. Right now, I'm in trouble for beginning a trip on time. Most places want a week to ship and a week in transit, ugh. Can't find anything local cheap, that's where the $400 comes from (dealer/tax/shipping gag).



    I'm soaking the carb in Berryman's right now, but I don't expect any change; the carb body itself is not really that badly gummed up, it's mostly the brass fittings. And I don't expect the soak to get rid of any unseen corrosion, that stuff is like epoxy.



    My worst element in all this is not knowing exactly how the carb sub-systems work. All those little passages are a bit mysterious as to how they are supposed to function. I can't find any way for extra gas to get into the engine, at idle, except for the "choke" (enrichment knob) and the coaster plunger/diaphragm. Both of them seem to be in great shape, but again, I don't know EXACTLY what kind of clearances etc. are needed for them to be working right.



    Big hint: Originally after I cleaned the carb, the bike would not idle, just either race or die with no predictability. Took it apart the Nth time and found the pilot jet clogged. Then AFTER I cleaned the pilot jet is when it started to run super-rich. I'm thinking, even if I enlarged the jet slightly/unintentionally, it wouldn't account for HORRIBLE running, just maybe a tad on the rich side. So I'm still stumped, don't know for sure if the carb is still gunked up some secret place, or if I damaged something in my amateur cleaning efforts.
    2009 (TW200Y) piggyback on our motorhome in a custom carrier

    Clark tank, custom seat, windshield, handguards, water bottle rack, Bestem T-box

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  5. #4
    Senior Member flingwing1969's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gthree View Post
    Hey thanks for the pointers. Right now, I'm in trouble for beginning a trip on time. Most places want a week to ship and a week in transit, ugh. Can't find anything local cheap, that's where the $400 comes from (dealer/tax/shipping gag).



    I'm soaking the carb in Berryman's right now, but I don't expect any change; the carb body itself is not really that badly gummed up, it's mostly the brass fittings. And I don't expect the soak to get rid of any unseen corrosion, that stuff is like epoxy.



    My worst element in all this is not knowing exactly how the carb sub-systems work. All those little passages are a bit mysterious as to how they are supposed to function. I can't find any way for extra gas to get into the engine, at idle, except for the "choke" (enrichment knob) and the coaster plunger/diaphragm. Both of them seem to be in great shape, but again, I don't know EXACTLY what kind of clearances etc. are needed for them to be working right.



    Big hint: Originally after I cleaned the carb, the bike would not idle, just either race or die with no predictability. Took it apart the Nth time and found the pilot jet clogged. Then AFTER I cleaned the pilot jet is when it started to run super-rich. I'm thinking, even if I enlarged the jet slightly/unintentionally, it wouldn't account for HORRIBLE running, just maybe a tad on the rich side. So I'm still stumped, don't know for sure if the carb is still gunked up some secret place, or if I damaged something in my amateur cleaning efforts.
    All that "green gunk" is transformed brass, therefore, there is some metal loss, albeit very small, simply due to the corrosion. Removing the gunk may alter the size/shape of the various orificia, thus altering the function of the carburetor in mysterious ways. If you can wait a day or so, you might be able to get a carb for $243 + overnight from http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Ya...TOR/parts.html - worth a call since your dealer is talking shipping too. Best of luck, sorry I can be of little REAL help.

  6. #5
    Senior Member flingwing1969's Avatar
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  7. #6
    Senior Member jbfla's Avatar
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    The Berryman's should work fine. Let the carb body soak overnight.



    Then rinse in clean fresh water. Use a compressor with an air hose to blow out all the passageways.



    Be careful not to lose the rubber plug when you use the air hose.



    If you weren't in a time crunch, you could overnight it to me and I could run it through the ultrasonic cleaner... That would be cheaper than a new carb.



    Jb
    2018 Triumph Street Twin..............2016 CB500F
    2014 XT250 ..................................2008 H-D Softail Deluxe
    2008 SV 650..................................2007 DR 650..

  8. #7
    Junior Member illesg's Avatar
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    UPDATE Sunday afternoon.



    Thanks again for the leads/pointers. Yes I had seen the stickies, they're VERY useful.



    Well, the Berryman's is truly awesome stuff, even got rid of green corrosion. Carb looks squeaky clean, and air flows through every hole I could find. I put fresh gas in the tank. BUT - - no change in the engine performance. It's running so rich it barely operates; plug turns solid black in about 10-15 seconds of operation. Pilot screw is fully turned in (OFF). Pulling the choke in/out has very little effect.



    I don't believe I'm dealing with a plugged up passage now, I think I've got some pathway to fuel open that is normally not supposed to be. The only enrichening circuits I'm aware of are the choke plunger and the coaster plunger. Both of them are snug-but-not-tight fits in their respective bores. The coaster bore has some minor scratching/scuffing in it from when I removed the corroded plunger, maybe gas is getting past there? For troubleshooting purposes, is there a handy way to defeat the coaster circuit? I'm thinking of just taking it off for a trial rev. Maybe it's the culprit and pouring fuel past the plunger? For sure the engine is not making enough vacuum to overcome that spring.... I wonder what would happen if I just put some fuelseal on the plunger to prevent any bypass.....
    2009 (TW200Y) piggyback on our motorhome in a custom carrier

    Clark tank, custom seat, windshield, handguards, water bottle rack, Bestem T-box

  9. #8
    Senior Member rm_hm's Avatar
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    I've had good luck with the spendy stuff. It will not attack plastic or rubber components. It's water based so you can fill a cheap ultrasonic cleaner with it and go to town. Or let it soak overnight.







    if you are in a hurry to clean then try this recipe at your own risk with the cleaner pictured above



    For really gummed up carbs, where they are going to have to come apart,

    mix the carb cleaner 50/50 with water, put the carbs-or parts-in a can,

    cover them with the mixture, and heat it to an “almost” boil – surface

    should be barely rolling. Let them cook for approx. 15 minutes, then

    rinse the parts in fresh running water, and blow dry with compressed

    air. Check the bodies and bowls to make sure all the small passages are

    clear, and soak them a bit longer if they aren’t.










    I've read this warning about Berrymans...

    Notice: You have to keep all rubber and paint well away from it (including rubber o-rings, diaphragms and seals). Hard plastic parts won't be affected.



    The Berryman website warns "We do not recommend this product for cleaning of rubber or plastic parts. Any non-metal cleaning needs should be tested prior to actual cleaning to check for compatibility."







    The Legendary original solvent based yamaha carb cleaner. This stuff is like gold if you can find it....





  10. #9
    Senior Member flingwing1969's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    I've had good luck with the spendy stuff
    I think he wants to add a bit of varnish to his plunger. Good luck brother, I sincerely feel for you, especially the rush to get on the road.



    Everything in a carb is really tight and orifice size is critical. It doesn't take too much of a change in size of the wrong orifice or wear on a slide to get too much fuel to the combustion chamber. Bummer!

  11. #10
    Senior Member jbfla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gthree View Post
    UPDATE...

    I don't believe I'm dealing with a plugged up passage now, I think I've got some pathway to fuel open that is normally not supposed to be. The only enrichening circuits I'm aware of are the choke plunger and the coaster plunger. Both of them are snug-but-not-tight fits in their respective bores. The coaster bore has some minor scratching/scuffing in it from when I removed the corroded plunger, maybe gas is getting past there? For troubleshooting purposes, is there a handy way to defeat the coaster circuit? I'm thinking of just taking it off for a trial rev. Maybe it's the culprit and pouring fuel past the plunger? For sure the engine is not making enough vacuum to overcome that spring.... I wonder what would happen if I just put some fuelseal on the plunger to prevent any bypass.....
    I agree. The carb is clean. I believe it's a mechanical problem... A missing part? A part improperly installed?



    The only circuit that dumps a large amount of fuel is the choke/enricher circuit. I wouldn't mess with the coaster circuit.



    jb



    I sent you a pm.
    2018 Triumph Street Twin..............2016 CB500F
    2014 XT250 ..................................2008 H-D Softail Deluxe
    2008 SV 650..................................2007 DR 650..

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