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Thread: Need carb help

  1. #1
    Senior Member mrlmd's Avatar
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    Need carb help

    For those that have followed any of my recent posts -

    My bike, a 2000 with the Teikei cylindrical slide carb, was running perfectly and started instantly until I replaced a deteriorated air filter with a new properly oiled one. Then my troubles started. First I couldn't start the bike, then when I got it started it ran terribly so I added some Berryman's B12 to the fuel in an attempt to a quick and easy carb cleaning., and it also put out white-gray smoke when I finally got it started and running. It wouldn't run without choke. I thought the carb may have gotten some filter debris in it so I took off the carb and cleaned every orifice. No change. I emptied the fuel tank thinking the Berryman's could make the smoke, refilled with fresh gas, put in a new plug (the other one was black and wet - fouled). Then I replaced both the pilot and main jets (on my bike, stock is 40 and 114 and that's what I put in). The smoke I figured out was gas in the oil, maybe coming back in via the airbox. checked and the level was up, and I also had some oil in the airbox below the filter, so I drained the oil and replaced it and again took the carb apart for thorough cleaning #3. The bike ran pretty much the same - it would take forever to start and run. It would run for 2 secs. then 3 secs, eventually 15 secs., then would run steady. minimal smoke. And again the oil level increased due to gas leaking in. I have a hard time believing the float needle was leaking because I couldn't blow through it with the carb upside down, but today I took the carb apart for the 4th time. I cleaned again every orifice, every little piece of the carb. I got the pivot shaft for the floats out without any difficulty but when I put it back together I replaced that shaft with a slightly smaller diameter nail trimmed to the right length so I can get it out again without the fear of breaking off one of the posts. The O ring on the needle seat looked good. The rubber diaphragm in the enricher circuit is intact and clean with no rips or tears. All the new jets are clean and patent. After I put it all together again I hooked it up to the fuel tank, left the petcock open for an hour and there's not a drop of gas leaking out of the bowl overflow drain or anywhere from the carb. The pilot screw is turned out 2 turns and I don't know what it's supposed to be for this carb. Now the bike starts easier, no smoke, runs only with the choke on either full, or when warm down to half choke. It falters/hesitates on acceleration, then takes off by itself and runs well at high speed. It dies if I turn down the choke. No smoke and no increase in oil level now. I tried to open the pilot to 2 1/2 turns, but that makes no difference, and isn't that only for starting or low speed?
    I also checked for air leaks around the carb to engine connection by spraying carb cleaner in the area and that has no effect.
    So. I have some questions.
    I never leave the petcock to ON when the bike is off, so how does gas get into the oil when the engine is running? A leaky float needle would allow that to happen when the bike runs?
    Am I running rich or lean, because of the hard starting, bad acceleration and inability to run without at least half choke (enricher), and how would I know and how do I fix this?
    The thing that ticks me off in all of this, aside from taking this all apart so many times and not fixing it, is that it was perfect before I replaced the air filter and that should not have caused any of this.
    Thanks for any suggestions.
    Last edited by mrlmd; 04-19-2018 at 04:03 PM.
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  2. #2
    Super Moderator JerseyJeeper's Avatar
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    It's lean and it sure sounds like the idle circuit. Do you have a fuel filter in the gas line? It may be getting slime right back in it immediately from the bottom of the tank. How old was the gas that was in it when you first started it? Wash the tank out. Start over re-clean it. Pull the jets and use compressed air in through all the circuits, use a ultrasonic cleaner if you can get one, soak it with the jets out if not. That your float kept sticking letting gas through the air box is a clue you have/had bad gas. The idle circuit is extremely sensitive to bad gas in the TK's
    Husqvarna TE300i Fuel Injected 2-Stroke 2019
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  3. #3
    Senior Member mrlmd's Avatar
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    OK. so I let it sit for maybe 3 hours leaving the petcock ON, no increase in the oil level, no gas on the floor under the bike.
    I started it eventually after 15 tries before it would run for more than a second or two., and had it running for 3-4 min. A little bit of smoke on startup and running moderately high throttle on half choke. Won't run on no choke. Now oil level has gone up over the top of the site glass. Why does that happen while running, when it doesn't leak gas when bike is off and the petcock is left ON?
    And I just cleaned it for the 4th time - every passage can be easily blown through with carb cleaner and air so I don't know what else to clean after taking the entire thing apart 3 times and doing the same thing.
    How do you fix "lean"? Is the cylinder not moving up and down with the throttle? Not likely, as I can see it move on the bench, and I can find no evidence anywhere of air restriction. I have also again squeezed out the air filter to make sure of that. It runs the same with filter on or off.
    Last edited by mrlmd; 04-19-2018 at 05:05 PM.

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  5. #4
    Senior Member admiral's Avatar
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    If sitting and the float bowl overflow tube was plugged I could see the carb filling up and spilling into the cylinder down into the case but only happening while attempting to run or running. Stumped.

    I've had a TW carb where the needle seat o-ring had deteriorated. I think you mentioned it was ok but I can't quite tell for sure. I'm not talking about the rubber tip at the end of the needle. I had a very hard time starting mine with this leaky condition but the symptoms are not the same as yours as my enricher would have to be pushed in not out like your problem.

    Mine would leak on the ground when off if petcock not turned off and there were signs of engine running and starting problems before complete failure. I was on the trail and the engine died on me. Fuel was leaking out of all the overflow/breather carb tubes not just the float bowl overflow tube.

    What I'm saying or thinking out loud is maybe you have multiple problems needle valve seat bad causing leaking even though it looks good (can be cracked and look good) and your float bowl overflow tube plugged.

    Only things I can think of.

    I have an a 2005 carb which is not in use currently I can loan you if you need a good carb to to help diagnose your problem. Let me know via PM if you do.
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  6. #5
    Super Moderator JerseyJeeper's Avatar
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    You are beyond generous!

    Quote Originally Posted by admiral View Post
    If sitting and the float bowl overflow tube was plugged I could see the carb filling up and spilling into the cylinder down into the case but only happening while attempting to run or running. Stumped.

    I've had a TW carb where the needle seat o-ring had deteriorated. I think you mentioned it was ok but I can't quite tell for sure. I'm not talking about the rubber tip at the end of the needle. I had a very hard time starting mine with this leaky condition but the symptoms are not the same as yours as my enricher would have to be pushed in not out like your problem.

    Mine would leak on the ground when off if petcock not turned off and there were signs of engine running and starting problems before complete failure. I was on the trail and the engine died on me. Fuel was leaking out of all the overflow/breather carb tubes not just the float bowl overflow tube.

    What I'm saying or thinking out loud is maybe you have multiple problems needle valve seat bad causing leaking even though it looks good (can be cracked and look good) and your float bowl overflow tube plugged.

    Only things I can think of.

    I have an a 2005 carb which is not in use currently I can loan you if you need a good carb to to help diagnose your problem. Let me know via PM if you do.
    Tweaker and Teddy_Bang_Bang like this.
    Husqvarna TE300i Fuel Injected 2-Stroke 2019
    Yamaha XT225 - 1999 Serow
    Yamaha TW200Z - 2010
    Yamaha BW200 Electric Start! - 1986
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    Husqvarna 701 Enduro - 2017
    Kawasaki Prairie 650 - 2002

  7. #6
    Senior Member mrlmd's Avatar
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    Float bowl overflow tube is definitely NOT clogged either inside the carb, or the plastic/vinyl tube leading down to below the engine.

    Does the newer 2005 carb have the same dimensions as my 2000 carb? I believe it was a different manufacturer and the throttle cables attach on the right side of the bike, mine attach on the left side, and the in and out throat diameters attaching to the boots may be a different diameter. Anybody know? But thanks alot for the offer, I have to investigate further.
    Last edited by mrlmd; 04-19-2018 at 06:13 PM.

  8. #7
    Senior Member mrlmd's Avatar
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    i have a brand new clean jet in there and the passages are wide open. So where in the carb do I look?

    Is the carb generating that high a suction it can suck in more gas than is needed and it goes into the cylinder and down pass the rings? How else does gas get into the oil?
    And tell me why the bike won't run if the choke is turned down. How can it run lean (too much air, not enough fuel) and pour gas into the cylinders to leak into the oil at the same time?
    I'm missing something here.

  9. #8
    Senior Member mrlmd's Avatar
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    I've seen this video before, many, many times, and thanks for it again. The only thing I could imagine is that I still may have a blockage in the air line leading to the pilot jet, maybe a tiny piece of crap from the disintegrated filter that carb cleaner or chemicals won't dissolve or clean out and I may have to take the carb off again to try and get to it.

    What I don;t understand is how gas is getting into my oil if the float needle is not leaking. Can there be so much of a venturi effect in the carb if that air passage is blocked off to be able to suck up gas through the enricher circuit and pilot jet in excess, and not get burned, that it gets to seep down into the oil? I can't imagine that. How else can gas get into the oil if not via the cylinder leaking past rings and why shouldn't it just be running rich and burn up that gas?
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  10. #9
    Senior Member admiral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrlmd View Post
    What I don;t understand is how gas is getting into my oil if the float needle is not leaking. Can there be so much of a venturi effect in the carb if that air passage is blocked off to be able to suck up gas through the enricher circuit and pilot jet in excess, and not get burned, that it gets to seep down into the oil? I can't imagine that. How else can gas get into the oil if not via the cylinder leaking past rings and why shouldn't it just be running rich and burn up that gas?

    I'm still thinking something in the fuel circuit is plugged and another part is leaking backing up fuel into the carb and then into the engine through the intake. Fuel is not coming out of the float bowl overflow tube right? This could be true if your float is stuck in the closed position with fuel not flowing into the bowl. With a bad needle seat o-ring, you can still get fuel leaking into the carb thus allowing fuel to overflow into the engine.

    I suppose in theory if you are having a massive amount of fuel going into the cylinder through the intake when trying to start and it's too much fuel, as in a type of flooding condition, unburnt fuel could also be seeping into the engine but this would have to be a lot to fill up the crankcase as your describing.

    You've mentioned doing almost everything in the below link but maybe it's worth reading to see if it triggers something you haven't investigated.

    Carburetors - Dan's Online Motorcycle Repair Course
    Dan's Motorcycle "Motorcycle Carburetor Repair "

    P.S. my 2005 carb is still being offered but I would also have to send you the intake manifold as it has a different angle than the pre-2001 carbs and I can also send with it the cables and twist throttle.
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  11. #10
    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    Sounds like several problems associated with the first "too rich" symptoms followed by the current "too lean" status as well as the reported apparently variable oil level.
    I would replace the entire float needle assembly since a worn needle can stick itself to the seat walls in either an open, or closed condition affecting the fuel mix.
    Clogged small air passageway(s) that the mixture screw and jet feed into could also account for the current lean state that does not respond to changes in mixture screw settings.
    As pointed out any significant amount of gas in the crankcase would have a strong odor. A smell test at the oil fill port should readily confirm or deny gas in the oil.
    Last edited by Fred; 04-20-2018 at 11:29 AM.
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