Charging issues (2009) (Charging volts drop off as bike warms up)
Close
    
    
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 36
Like Tree48Likes

Thread: Charging issues (2009) (Charging volts drop off as bike warms up)

  1. #1
    Junior Member FALCON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    17

    Charging issues (2009) (Charging volts drop off as bike warms up)

    [I searched for threads here of people having the same issue, but didn't find quite the same thing... I did find some info that makes me think my problem is with the stator, but I also found some that makes me think there's a problem with the reg/rect.]


    I've just recently bought a 2009 TW200 with about 1,000 miles. This is my first motorcycle and I'm super excited about riding. Unfortunately, I'm having some issues with the charging system.


    The first day that I took it out for a ride of any significant distance, the battery went dead. I was going to some different places and stopping and then starting the bike, and if I recall correctly, it worked for about 4 or so starts. Then was dead. The lights all went very dim. I got a new battery. I rode less time to test it, and it appeared the battery was not getting charged correctly. I charged up the battery off the bike immediately after that ride.

    --------------

    So, I read the service manual and started testing. Here are the related pages:

    (dang,.. because this is my first post, I can't post links/images. For those with the 1987 manual, it's pages 7-27 through 7-30.)

    I believe there are some slight differences between this 1987 manual and my 2009 bike. The fuses are in different locations, and maybe the resistance spec for the stator is different(?).

    ----------------

    My troubleshooting results:

    1 - FUSES - . I replaced both the fuses. They're ok. Problem still happens.

    2 - BATTERY - I'm all but certain the battery is ok. I just got a new one. It holds a charge well. I know it's fine in every way except that I haven't gotten it load tested. I've been careful with the new battery not to discharge it much. I've ridden it once, and not for very far/long, it did get discharged some, but not entirely (I don't recall the voltage, it didn't go all that low, maybe 12.5v, and I recharged it as soon as I got home. It stays up around 12.9v or so. It can start the bike at least a few times in a row without issues.

    3 - CHARGING VOLTAGE TEST - Here's where things start to get weird. When I start the bike up cold, the battery voltage goes up to about 13.1v at idle, and 14.0v when revved. It is consistent and steady at those levels. As the bike warms up (I haven't timed it, but I think this starts happening after about 4 minutes), the voltage starts fluctuating and going down. After a couple minutes, it gets down to around 11.9 volts and sits there. If I turn on the brights, it goes down a little bit, but not much, maybe to 11.8. If I turn off the bike and start it up again right away, the voltage is still low. The rectifier/regulator does not get hot.

    4 - CHARGING COIL RESISTANCE - I checked resistance at the connector near the reg/rect. It is 0.7 to 1 ohm between all three of the non-ground wires (at maybe 60 degrees F ambient temp). I have been confused about this not being right at the 0.3-0.5 ohm spec, although I did see someone write on another post here that newer TW200 stators are specced at a resistance closer to my test results.


    So - does anyone have experience with an issue like this - of the charging working fine while cold but then dropping off pretty quickly?


    Additional Info:

    I haven't yet tested diode continuity of the reg/rect. Should I do that?

    I do have a multimeter with a clamp for testing amps (without needing to break circuits). I haven't tested this much other than one time right after starting cold, and there were 2 amps going into the battery. Is there other testing I should do with it?

    The lights/horn, etc. went out (got very dim) on that first long ride with the older battery. I haven't ever noticed flickering of lights, or any dimming and then getting bright.
    Last edited by FALCON; 12-16-2018 at 12:34 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tweaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    1,865
    Question did you charge up the new battery first before you put it in? You charged it later off the bike so that is good. It sounds like you did the correct thing in changing batteries. Why do you think the new battery is not charging now? Once a battery is full the voltage regulator will reduce the voltage so as to not over charge. From what you describe the regulator seems to be working properly.

    So a fully charged rested battery will read @12.7v. 3/4 full @ 12.5v. 11.5v fully discharged.
    The regulator needs to put in a higher voltage to charge up to 14.3 V. As the battery gets full it will drop to a lower voltage.

    If the charging seems to be erratic I would check for poor ground connections.
    ”Everything You Know is Wrong”

    ” How Can You Be in Two Places at Once When You Are Nowhere at All?”




    Twin 2014 TW200's made side by side on the assembly line, Moose rear racks, Protaper ATV high bars, DG oval pipes, kick starters, rejetted carbs, 130 main jets, 2 -3 -.020 shims on the needles and @ 2 1/2 turns on the pilot screw, #34 pilot jets, Acerbis hand guards, Shinko 241 front tires, modified Krator foot pegs, 14-55t sprockets, Ricochet skid plates and 90 degree fuel filters.

  3. #3
    Junior Member FALCON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    17
    Hello, Tweaker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tweaker View Post
    Question did you charge up the new battery first before you put it in? You charged it later off the bike so that is good. It sounds like you did the correct thing in changing batteries. Why do you think the new battery is not charging now? Once a battery is full the voltage regulator will reduce the voltage so as to not over charge. From what you describe the regulator seems to be working properly.

    So a fully charged rested battery will read @12.7v. 3/4 full @ 12.5v. 11.5v fully discharged.
    The regulator needs to put in a higher voltage to charge up to 14.3 V. As the battery gets full it will drop to a lower voltage.

    I did not charge the new battery before putting it on the bike. I didn't have a multimeter at the time so I'm not even sure what the voltage was. It started the bike up just fine. I do think the battery is ok because it starts the bike up ok, it doesn't seem to get drained quickly, and it holds a charge when sitting.

    I don't think the battery is charging (other than during the first 5 minutes), because:
    • The first battery went dead while riding
    • After the bike has warmed up, voltage at the battery drops to what I think is too low. (One time I recall it going to 12.2v, and another time to less than 12).
    • Being down at about 12.0v (and sometimes less) while warmed up and idling, means (I believe), that the battery is losing charge.
    • If I turn the bike off shortly after that voltage drop occurs, the battery voltage goes back up to ~12.9v. (because it was getting charged at 14v and then only discharged a small amount of time at ~12v).
    • If I ride the bike (or, if I were to let it sit idling), the lights drain the battery over time. Happened with the old battery (to dead), and with the new battery (partially, as I was concerned and rode for less time, when I got home from that ride, I put the battery on a charger and it was taking significant amps).



    Quote Originally Posted by Tweaker View Post
    If the charging seems to be erratic I would check for poor ground connections.
    I wouldn't describe it as erratic. When started cold, it is consistent at 13.1v at idle and 14v when revved. When it starts decreasing, there are some fluctuations. The decreasing starts about about 3 minutes after starting the bike, and takes about one minute. After that, it gets stable at the low voltage.

    Edit - after the voltage has decreased, it is steady while idling, but when I rev the engine, it moves around. Up to as high as 13.5v and as low as 10.5. (those both being very brief readings)
    Last edited by FALCON; 12-16-2018 at 12:26 PM.
    Badgerflorida likes this.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    TW200Forum.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Turtle Wrangling the Sierras
    Posts
    19,069
    Make sure you are using the correct reference material when testing things like coil resistance. Service manual has a supplement for newer model TWs :'01 and newer supplement.pdf (3.26 M
    Badgerflorida and Tweaker like this.
    2003 TW200 "Betty Boop"
    2006 TW200 "Nibbler", a.k.a. “Mr.Gizmo"
    Hidden Content All Things Considered I’ld Rather Be Motorcycling

  6. #5
    Senior Member Badgerflorida's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    1,299
    +1 for loose ground. Would explain erratic behavior. Mine was my own fault I didn’t tighten the regulator/rectifier fasteners. Within five rides my battery was flat til I found my mistake. Good thing these things bump start easily when they’re warm. Or have a kickstarter.

    OP gave nice summary and did good diagnostics.
    Last edited by Badgerflorida; 12-16-2018 at 12:51 PM.
    01 SOLD
    96 SOLD
    89 restored SOLD
    89 (restoration in process)
    05 (restoration in process)
    03 SOLD
    04 in great condition

  7. #6
    Senior Member Tweaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    1,865
    Falcon the key is to test the battery voltage after resting(1hr) and nothing on or running. If is near12.7v your battery is charged. The low readings you are getting while idling are because the headlight and other lights are putting a load on the batttery causing a drop while the magneto is not putting out any charge. This is normal and one good reason not to let the bike idle too longe as it is not charging at low rpms., only discharging due to the loads. As you noticed the voltage goes up when you rev the motor and now it is charging. The factory recommended idle rpm is @1509-1800rpm probably to provide a charge and also to give oil pressure o the head for lubrication and cooling while idleing. I never set my idle this high but also never let it idle long even to warm up.

    I think you are worrying about a good new battery and it is ok.
    Last edited by Tweaker; 12-16-2018 at 02:33 PM.
    Fred and jtstdub like this.
    ”Everything You Know is Wrong”

    ” How Can You Be in Two Places at Once When You Are Nowhere at All?”




    Twin 2014 TW200's made side by side on the assembly line, Moose rear racks, Protaper ATV high bars, DG oval pipes, kick starters, rejetted carbs, 130 main jets, 2 -3 -.020 shims on the needles and @ 2 1/2 turns on the pilot screw, #34 pilot jets, Acerbis hand guards, Shinko 241 front tires, modified Krator foot pegs, 14-55t sprockets, Ricochet skid plates and 90 degree fuel filters.

  8. #7
    Junior Member FALCON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    17
    I will investigate the grounding. At this point, I know nothing about grounding on this bike (just basic understanding that systems are grounded and stuff). If there's a certain place to look or way to check, I'd love input on it. I will, of course, take a look at the manual.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tweaker View Post
    Falcon the key is to test the battery voltage after resting(1hr) and nothing on or running. If is near12.7v your battery is charged. The low readings you are getting while idling are because the headlight and other lights are putting a load on the batttery causing a drop while the magneto is not putting out any charge.
    Yes, the battery holds a charge well. I've checked it numerous times and it stays up over 12.8v after sitting for hours.

    So, my concern is that the stator/magneto (or reg/rect) seems to entirely stop output after it's warmed up. (Voltage drops down to 12.0v or less - that is both at idle, and it no matter how much I rev the engine - other than that sometimes the voltage starts jumping around - both up and down, but in total/average, does not actually go up). That's not normal, is it? I would think that it should continue working like right after I start the bike cold, and stay around 13v at idle, and go up to ~14v when revved. Right?

  9. #8
    Senior Member Badgerflorida's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    1,299
    This is the one that was loose and caused my charging problems.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    01 SOLD
    96 SOLD
    89 restored SOLD
    89 (restoration in process)
    05 (restoration in process)
    03 SOLD
    04 in great condition

  10. #9
    Junior Member FALCON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    17
    So, I checked the ground cables on the reg/rect (yep, the one you have showed in the pic, Badgerflorida), and from the battery to the engine. It was tight already on the reg/rect and I re-tightened it. I took the terminal off the engine for inspection. It looked good, but I cleaned it up a bit more and put it back.

    I started it to test again. I got a bit different results. I did also disconnect the headlight to test with the system under less load. After about 5-6 minutes, the voltage drop did not happen as it had been before. Voltage was holding very steady at 14.1v at idle (and not increasing with revs). I plugged the light back in. Voltage stayed at 14v at idle. After about 4 more minutes, the voltage dropped to ~12.2 and stayed steady there at idle or revs. I unplugged the light. It didn't change anything. I checked amps through on the battery positive cable with the clamp. Zero. I tried turning on the high-beam and turn signals. The amps jumped around a little bit (up to maybe 0.4) and went back to zero. I think that this time, in the long run, the battery was pretty stable around 12.3 or 12.4 volts.

    During this test I ran the bike for longer in total than the others - about 13 minutes, mostly idling (about 8 minutes of that at 14.1v, and then the rest at ~12.3). Now, after sitting maybe 15 minutes the battery is at 12.85v. So it certainly did not get discharged much.

    An update to what I wrote before - the reg/rect. is indeed getting hot. Probably too hot to be able to hold my hand on. I'd guess that is normal, given it has the cooling fins.

    So... I'm maybe even more confused.

    • Maybe there was a ground issue and it's (a little) better now?
    • Maybe the headlight getting hot or being on is related? (though I doubt that).
    • Maybe it's just normal for the battery volts to go down low after a while and it's all ok? (though I doubt this, because I don't think that should happen at zero amperage, and I expect the system to keep the battery around 13v or more, and if I stop and re-start the bike - creating a condition where the battery could really use some re-charging, it doesn't happen and the voltage just stays low). Can someone confirm what I should expect to see here? Should it stay up at 13/14v when warm?


    I may just go for a long-ish ride tomorrow, and see what happens.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Tweaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    1,865
    Ride it for a while and if the battery won’t start the bike or drops below 12.5v then you have a problem. I say a gain what you are seeing is normal regulator behavior. When you start the bike is draws a little power out of the battery your magneto will replace it quickly after it does the voltage will drop again. If the idle is low the voltage will be nil and the load ie lights will drop it @12v. Wait and see if you have a problem with THIS battery. You keep saying the voltage is good so no problem. Don’t worry about the voltage jumping around unless the battery is losing voltage after riding not idleing.
    Dryden-Tdub likes this.
    ”Everything You Know is Wrong”

    ” How Can You Be in Two Places at Once When You Are Nowhere at All?”




    Twin 2014 TW200's made side by side on the assembly line, Moose rear racks, Protaper ATV high bars, DG oval pipes, kick starters, rejetted carbs, 130 main jets, 2 -3 -.020 shims on the needles and @ 2 1/2 turns on the pilot screw, #34 pilot jets, Acerbis hand guards, Shinko 241 front tires, modified Krator foot pegs, 14-55t sprockets, Ricochet skid plates and 90 degree fuel filters.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Sponosred Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. charging issues
    By crankyankee in forum Technical Help
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-16-2015, 08:49 PM
  2. Replies: 20
    Last Post: 01-24-2014, 11:34 PM
  3. grr! 7 - 8 volts...
    By chazk3 in forum Technical Help
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-09-2013, 07:05 PM
  4. 98 for sale in mass...PRICE DROP 1600
    By dcon in forum TW200 Classifieds
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-21-2011, 07:20 PM
  5. Updated/REDUCED Clean 2007 TW, price drop, etc.
    By ericj in forum TW200 Classifieds
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-23-2011, 02:33 PM

Search tags for this page

tw200 has no power good battery

Click on a term to search for related topics.