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Thread: Charging system

  1. #1
    Senior Member frog13's Avatar
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    My TW is an 09.I have the factory service manual,while thumbing through the pages,I notice in the charging system section it advise's of an AC magneto generator. Am I taking the word generator too seriously or do we actually have a 3 phase system?. I'm electrically challenged by the way.I'm trying to find out the out put wattage of an 09's system.I'm confident this has been brought before,just point me in the right direction.......yes, I did search,but,I have a mojo following me when I attempt to find info. TIA.

  2. #2
    Senior Member lizrdbrth's Avatar
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    '87-'00 are single phase. Output more dependendent on high rpm.



    '00-up are three phase, better across the rpm range.



    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

    Powdercoated '87 frame, extended swingarm, YZ fork legs, ATV tire, 14/55, XT350 tank, spliced quick-release seat, disc brake conversion, beeg headlight, beeger rack, Lizrdcooler, Lizrdventz and bunch of other stuff all covered in invisible ink.

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  3. #3
    Senior Member rm_hm's Avatar
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    Info I gathered from all over the tw archives . Most of which was originally posted by *** TW2007 *** who seemed much smarter then me with these things.



    Estimated power consumption

    at 12 volts



    Headlight Draws 5 amps

    Panel Lights Draw about 1 amp (Neutral, High Beam, Turn, Instrument Light Combined)

    Tail Light Draws 1.5 amps

    Two Front Turn Lights (not Flashing) 1.5 amps When Flashing add another 1.5 amps.

    Brake Light - ON add another 1.5 amps (Unless you switch to a led one)



    Total estimated 9 amps or 108 watts



    NOTE: after 6000 rpm the bikes alternator does not have alot of additional capability and the curve goes relatively flat. From 6000 to 8000 rpm you only get 1 amp extra output.



    So if you run a big load on the bike you need to keep the rpm between 4000 and 8000 if you want to carry a load and keep the battery charged. This can be challenging off-road especially down hill.









    Newer Model Power Output averaged at 14v



    RPM ............... AMPS.....................WATTS

    2000 ..................8............................112

    4000 ..................13..........................182

    6000 ..................14..........................196

    8000 ..................15..........................210





    Early Models 87-96 (This seems really low can anyone else confirm?)



    RPM.........Amps........Watts

    2000............1..............14

    4000...........2.2...........30.8

    8000...........3..............42

    11000.........3.3...........46.2





    Notes

    The TW200E and earlier i believe has the headlight running straight off the charging circuit bypassing the battery.This might account for the lower power figures in the table above if they are only measuring power going to the battery and not total output. If your headlight only comes on when you start the bike, this is what you have.



    Other notes: On my 2009 If I turned the headlight off while idling the stock flooded battery started bubbling in moments. When I revved it the voltage spiked to 15 volts (amps unknown)







    For a little extra juice..



    Qwerty recommended putting in a 42w HID headlight with a lower power consumption then a stock headlight.



    " TWs have a "balanced" electrical system--the bike draws a bit less than the alternator makes, with the difference trickle-charging the battery. "Balance" is necessary to insure solid performance. And it is necessary to maintain that balance to prevent over- or under-charging the battery. "
    Ken likes this.


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  5. #4
    Senior Member lizrdbrth's Avatar
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    Senor Frog, the info in the late model supplement refers to your specific system and should be reasonably accurate.



    It's a bit of a mess for the rest of us.



    The numbers are a bit deceptive. There have actually been 3 charging systems. The early model figures are in fact the numbers for '87, which is a one-year-only system. The charging graph in the manual is for an '87.



    Essentially the manual blows in that regard. Almost all the info in the factory manual pertains to the '87-only system which was designed to handle only the loads of tail lights, dash lights and turn signals. The headlight had its own independent coil and they had no front running lights. They didn't need much of a charging system initially.



    The actual output of the '88-'00 units was increased in order to allow for the additional load imposed by the front running lights and headlight In other words they had the same static load as a late model, but the specs on that system never made their way into the factory manual, so those of us with the "middle" system have never had a good basis with which to judge how much buffer is in the system.



    Also confusing is the fact that the early models had a 10 amp main fuse. The later bikes had a 20 amp main fuse but the bikes all used the same sized wiring as the early models and no individual wire on either version is even capable of handling 10 amps. Any high draw accessories should be operated via relay and increased wire sizes.



    I've had all 3 systems on my bike at one time or another. I currently run the '88-'00 system. For all I know peak output may be similar to the late model but it stands to reason that it won't compete with the late model at lower rpm. Given that it's single phase and spec'd for a 35W headlight I don't push it.



    Always a good idea to juggle loads and keep the total somewhere close to stock or ride by voltmeter. Our regulators arent real good at shedding excess heat.



    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

    Powdercoated '87 frame, extended swingarm, YZ fork legs, ATV tire, 14/55, XT350 tank, spliced quick-release seat, disc brake conversion, beeg headlight, beeger rack, Lizrdcooler, Lizrdventz and bunch of other stuff all covered in invisible ink.

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  6. #5
    Senior Member frog13's Avatar
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    WOW,gentleman!.....outstanding explanations!!!....both of you.I was confused about their term AC magneto generator?.This juggling act seems to be a pain!.I'm still looking at auxiliary lights?.....it would look to be a "safer" bet to rig lights to an additional battery....hence a Shorai,and just run them that way.I've already contacted Shorai and they advised their battery(s) are up to this task.Just divide the first number in the model specific model number by 3 and that will give you the continual load....I presume amp hour.....ability of the specific battery one chooses?.Any more input from you TW'ers would be appreciated!.TIA

  7. #6
    Senior Member lizrdbrth's Avatar
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    The problem with the newer bikes is that they took away the kicker so if you exceed the capacity of the system and start to affect charging you're afoot when you go to restart your bike. Plenty of folks run auxilliary gear, you just have to keep your expectations reasonable.



    When it comes to the newer battery technologies you can now get much more capacity in less space. But everyone tends to go for lighter, smaller batteries of roughly equal capacity to stock and fills the excess space with foam. If it were me I'd take the opposite approach and take advantage of ALL the real estate in the battery box by getting the largest capacity modern battery that will physically fit into the space. By now I'm sure you can get 10-12AH batteries which fit into the space of a lead/acid 7AH unit.



    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

    Powdercoated '87 frame, extended swingarm, YZ fork legs, ATV tire, 14/55, XT350 tank, spliced quick-release seat, disc brake conversion, beeg headlight, beeger rack, Lizrdcooler, Lizrdventz and bunch of other stuff all covered in invisible ink.

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  8. #7
    Senior Member rm_hm's Avatar
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    Just don't run the shorai down very low. It takes away from it's life and voids the warranty .



    Also they are not 100% waterproof. Their innards can get wet after repeated soakings.


  9. #8
    Senior Member lizrdbrth's Avatar
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    Rich, I'm a little behind the curve on the newer batteries.



    Do they actually put "tattletales" in them like they have in cellphones and other devices?



    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

    Powdercoated '87 frame, extended swingarm, YZ fork legs, ATV tire, 14/55, XT350 tank, spliced quick-release seat, disc brake conversion, beeg headlight, beeger rack, Lizrdcooler, Lizrdventz and bunch of other stuff all covered in invisible ink.

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  10. #9
    Senior Member rm_hm's Avatar
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    They have a chip in them where you connect a shorai smart charger.



    Conditions Not Covered

    • Over-voltage charging, or other error by charger or user setting of charger. Do not exceed 14.8 volts
    • Use in excess of cranking (CCA) specifications
    • Short circuit of main terminals or BMS port
    • Improper connections to the 5-pin BMS port
    • Over-discharge (i.e. resting voltage allowed to fall below 12.8V/6.4V for Lfx 12V/6V types)
    • Physical Damage to the pack occurring after purchase (impact, water/salt corrosion, etc)






    I'm looking for a cutaway pic.. Until I find one enjoy this one



    The story was early versions had a design defect that has since been corrected.



    I sent the owner of this one an email asking for a postmortem examination.









    Maybe they are full of these







  11. #10
    Senior Member lizrdbrth's Avatar
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    Very sexy.



    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

    Powdercoated '87 frame, extended swingarm, YZ fork legs, ATV tire, 14/55, XT350 tank, spliced quick-release seat, disc brake conversion, beeg headlight, beeger rack, Lizrdcooler, Lizrdventz and bunch of other stuff all covered in invisible ink.

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