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Thread: Random Bike Stall - No Spark - Bump Start

  1. #11
    Senior Member tylermoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple View Post
    Yes – that battery condition is only 50% operational – hopefully you’ve caught it in time

    The Gel mat batteries are a cheap option that will not leak when “upturned” – or you can go the whole hog and consider Lithium

    But for now, run it and see if it holds

    The other thing to consider is “where did the acid go” – hopefully down the breather pipe and exited near the swinging arm. As you hosed the bike off afterwards, there’s no harm done, but if the breather pipe was disconnected or missing, you’ll need to hose out the battery compartment …..
    The breather hose was connected, so we should be good there, and the bike got enough of a hose down that anything else should be fine. Though I will say, after a dirty muddy day, it's near impossible to get all the dirt/sand off

    I think we're good there though. Hopefully that was all it was and I don't have a water issue, but that's easy enough to take care of anyways... just a PITA. Thanks!
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  2. #12
    GOF
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    I'd replace that battery. Definitely use one of the spill proof batteries. I went with an AGM type myself. Didn't want to spend more as I didn't know if the bike was going to come back after sitting way too long.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member RaZed1's Avatar
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    I think you probably found the issue. 14.2v with the bike running is perfectly fine. If you're going to be off-roading the bike and most likely dropping it, I'd get a sealed battery sooner than later.

    Lithium batteries used to be $$$$ but they've considerably come down in price over the last couple years. The name brands are like $150 or so, and decent quality aftermarket can be had in the $70-80 range- or about what a quality AGM costs. I have a Motobatt lithium in my Beta, think it was like $80 and it's been working great, and I'd used their AGM batteries in the past and always had good life out of them. It spins over so strong the starter is about as fast as the normal idle. My TW came to me with a fairly new sealed Yuasa and it's still going fine, easily cranking over even with the high compression piston. When it starts wearing out I'll probably replace it with a lithium, why not.

    The creme de la creme of sealed motorcycle batteries are Odyssey. These aren't cheap, but they last forever and have considerably more CCA than normal for their size. My Vmax came to me with one that was already going on 5 years old. Figuring it must be on death's door, I kept an eye out for slow cranking or anything else. Always started strong, on a bike that was notorious for slow cranking or not starting if the battery wasn't in tip top shape. It was still in the bike 3 years later when I sold it, now being almost 8 years old and having at least 50k miles of use.

    Avoid the $20-$30 no name batteries that are all over ebay/amazon. I've used a handful of these in the past and if you get a year out of them that's a lot. I remember seeing a video where they tested a bunch of cheap batteries and most had nowhere near the advertised CCA rating either. I guess if you need a quick fix for a cheap bike they have a purpose, I've put them in a few cheapo "flip" bikes I just got running again to re-sell and I wanted to keep the investment to a minimum.
    Last edited by RaZed1; 09-04-2019 at 11:37 AM.
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  5. #14
    GOF
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    LOL! Yeah. I went with the cheap AGM. But like I said. Wanted to make sure the bike was going to survive before I spent more than I had to. When this one dies it will probably be a lithium for the next.
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  6. #15
    Senior Member Darth's Avatar
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    When you change batteries, I'd highly recommend a name brand name Lithium. Mine is Lithium ION and I am totally impressed with it!

    A bonus is that it is 6lbs. lighter than the crappy OE wet cell it replaced. My bike is on an aggressive weight loss program and that battery is the single largest weight saver, so far.

    I hear even better things about the Lithium Iron batteries, but know very little about them.

    If you think you might have battery acid corrosion anywhere, or any of it is trapped anywhere, you could hit it everywhere with a heavy dusting of baking soda. After a while, blow it out with an air-hose.
    The soda won't harm anything.

    EDIT: As a 2nd choice to the more expensive Lithium, I would have used an AGM. They are also leak-proof. I've gotten 7-8 years out of a couple of them. But they lived on an appropriate trickle charger.
    Last edited by Darth; 09-05-2019 at 09:40 AM.
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  7. #16
    Super Moderator littletommy's Avatar
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    Just out of curiosity I looked up a battery from Odyssey for my Piaggio BV350 Scooter. Wow, over 200 bucks, and it sounds like I might need their special charger??? An Additional 100+ buckaroo's. I wonder if that is necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by RaZed1 View Post
    I think you probably found the issue. 14.2v with the bike running is perfectly fine. If you're going to be off-roading the bike and most likely dropping it, I'd get a sealed battery sooner than later.

    Lithium batteries used to be $$$$ but they've considerably come down in price over the last couple years. The name brands are like $150 or so, and decent quality aftermarket can be had in the $70-80 range- or about what a quality AGM costs. I have a Motobatt lithium in my Beta, think it was like $80 and it's been working great, and I'd used their AGM batteries in the past and always had good life out of them. It spins over so strong the starter is about as fast as the normal idle. My TW came to me with a fairly new sealed Yuasa and it's still going fine, easily cranking over even with the high compression piston. When it starts wearing out I'll probably replace it with a lithium, why not.

    The creme de la creme of sealed motorcycle batteries are Odyssey. These aren't cheap, but they last forever and have considerably more CCA than normal for their size. My Vmax came to me with one that was already going on 5 years old. Figuring it must be on death's door, I kept an eye out for slow cranking or anything else. Always started strong, on a bike that was notorious for slow cranking or not starting if the battery wasn't in tip top shape. It was still in the bike 3 years later when I sold it, now being almost 8 years old and having at least 50k miles of use.

    Avoid the $20-$30 no name batteries that are all over ebay/amazon. I've used a handful of these in the past and if you get a year out of them that's a lot. I remember seeing a video where they tested a bunch of cheap batteries and most had nowhere near the advertised CCA rating either. I guess if you need a quick fix for a cheap bike they have a purpose, I've put them in a few cheapo "flip" bikes I just got running again to re-sell and I wanted to keep the investment to a minimum.
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  8. #17
    Super Moderator Purple's Avatar
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    The only thing you need to worry about is if your lead acid charger just does its own thing, or whether or not you can turn some functions off

    Lithium likes to be slow charged, to allow that charge to gently seep into the battery. Think of it like a zippo, where you can squirt a drop into the bottom, and then try to light a dry wick as it hasn’t got through yet. Lithium cells take it from the top, and it slowly sinks down from there

    Now look at the old style lead acid charger, which will simply chuck as much into it as it “thinks” it needs, often way in excess of the recommended charge rate – but if it goes into “de-sulphate” mode, you really have a problem, as the high voltage charge will kill the Lithium battery

    I use a NOCO Genius charger, which you can put it to “Lithium mode” to begin with (it does all types of batteries), and I know that it will be fine. The one with the smallest charge rate is fine for motorbikes, it’s the NOCO Genius G1100

    But yeah – it’s necessary. Even if you have a modern lead acid charger that you can disable de-sulphate, you’ll still need it to go straight to trickle charge, or you put the battery at risk – and yes, they cost $100 +
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  9. #18
    Senior Member RaZed1's Avatar
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    I just checked for the hell of it, and the battery my Vmax took (an Odyssey PC680) is currently $130 on Amazon. I never heard anywhere (or used myself) they need any sort of special chargers. In fact, I don't seem to remember ever having to manually charge mine. In the winters I'd just unhook the negative cable and 5 months later I'd hook it back up and the bike would fire up like I ran it 5 minutes ago. Odyssey may have a lithium product line now, but the one I used was a sealed lead acid battery. I don't know if it was a gel or AGM or what.

    When it comes to lithium, I've seen mixed things. Some companies claim you can only charge them with of course, the special charger they'd also like to sell you. But your motorcycle is not a "special charger", it outputs 14.4v in a "dumb" fashion, just supplies as much current as the battery will accept. So if the ONLY safe way to charge the battery was via a special voltage, special process charger, they would not be suitable for use in any vehicle that was not specifically designed for them. Which none are, which would seriously limit your market. Some newer KTM dirt bikes come with lithium batteries from the factory, and there were no changes made to the charging system compared to models that came with lead-acids. The charging circuitry in contained within the battery. All but the cheapest and frankly dangerous lithium batteries have a built in management system to regulate charging and balance the cells, as well as usually protecting against over and under charging.

  10. #19
    Super Moderator Purple's Avatar
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    Precisely – a motorcycle stator will only produce a given output, which the Lithium battery manages – whereas a lead acid charger produces a range of limits, some of which are harmful to the battery. Unless you can control the output of a charger, it can fry the battery

    So you “CAN” use the old style charger, but only with a lot of care and caution. The day you forget to check the settings is the day your bike possibly catches fire

    On a ride, there is a voltage regulator in the circuit. On charge, you are naked ….
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  11. #20
    Senior Member TW_in_BC's Avatar
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    Another "mod" to consider.
    On all of my bikes, I wire a handlebar switch into the HI beam circuit of the headlight. This way, when I am starting it, I can flick the factory switch to HI beam, but turn OFF my handlebar switch so that ALL of the battery-power goes to turning the starter.
    This won't affect the LOW beam at all, so you'll still have to option of using that circuit for your DRL's...if you remember to switch to LOW after starting.

    If you have a battery issue while riding, this also serves to isolate the battery for running the engine instead of powering the headlight.

    I understand the need for daytime running lights but to have such a large current draw while you're trying to start en engine, doesn't make sense. Someone who's crafty with electronics could wire in a timing circuit that would disconnect the headlight for 30 seconds once the key is turned ON....
    Last edited by TW_in_BC; 09-06-2019 at 10:17 AM.
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