2014 sea level jetting question.
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Thread: 2014 sea level jetting question.

  1. #1
    Junior Member Utsikt's Avatar
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    2014 sea level jetting question.

    Hello, I have a 14 tw200 that is fully stock. Living at sea level I found the bike to be running lean. So I turned the fuel screw out to 2.5 turns and it definitely helped with starting and idling. I then found the bike to just kinda feel flat so I looked at jetting the bike. Not wanting to do the procycle kit cause shipping to Canada is nuts I ended up trying the dynojet kit since it came with a adjustable needle. As the instructions and testing I ended up with #130 main, 2.5 turns out on fuel screw. Needled clip in he middle and drilled the small hole in the carb slide a bit bigger as per instructions (not needle hole). 1/4 to full throttle feels nice its smooth and pulls harder but from closed throttle to 1/4 it has a hesitation and is jerky. Leads me to think the pilot circuit is to lean. So I found out the xt250 had a #34 pilot jet that fits and to order from Yamaha would be $20cdn. The other option is to try the sigma 6 kit but its like 40usd and I'm not sure if Its any better than the dynojet set up since I really only need a pilot jet. So insight would be great.

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    Senior Member BUMBLESPECIMOODA's Avatar
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    I had, and now again have, similar issues. I thinking that the pilot is too rich, because when I lean it, it gets a little more responsive.

    I'm current trying to mess with this area of adjustment, and just asked some questions about pilot-jets.
    I might follow through with these carb experiment, depending on weather. If not, I will continue next season, as it's nearly time to put it away fer winter.

  3. #3
    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    Speaking from my experiences with the old style carbs prior to 2001 I have never found a good reason to mess with the jets for sea level altitudes. The pilot screw, air/fuel mixture adjustment was all I ever messed with and held the key to smooth running. Always somewhere between 2 - 2 1/2 turns out was where I found the sweet spot and the sweet spot did tend to change based on outside atmospheric conditions. Just a tiny twist of the pilot screw on any given day made all the difference. On a cool dry day the older bikes usually ran great but on a warm humid day they would stumble a bit. Many of us made or bought extended pilot screws just to make the tweeking easier because the pilot screw adjustment must be made while the bike is at full operating temperature. Member Gregor was making very nice extended screws with a simple L shaped extension protruding from the bottom making it clearly visible and accessible so you always knew where the screws position was and how far you spin it in either direction. Changing the internal jets IMO are best done for very high altitude riding and have little benefits for the TW at sea level or even up to 4,000 feet above.

    GaryL
    CJ7Pilot likes this.
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    Senior Member Scooterbrained's Avatar
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    Gary,

    My 2016, still stock, about sea level also, is having the same issues Utsikt described. Adjusting the enrichment screw has helped but cannot find a sweet spot.
    However, mine also has a fluctuating idle speed. It can vary up or down what sounds as much as 1,000 rpm while sitting at a red light.
    It may idle high one stop and then low the next or change while just sitting waiting on the green light.
    Any ideas what may be causing this?
    Also, what is the reason for drilling out the hole in the slide a tad bigger?

    Thanks in advance for any info,
    Marty
    '16 Yamaha TW200 '08 Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad '07 Kawasaki KLX250 '93 BMW R100GS Bumblebee (Mothballed)
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  6. #5
    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scooterbrained View Post
    Gary,

    My 2016, still stock, about sea level also, is having the same issues Utsikt described. Adjusting the enrichment screw has helped but cannot find a sweet spot.
    However, mine also has a fluctuating idle speed. It can vary up or down what sounds as much as 1,000 rpm while sitting at a red light.
    It may idle high one stop and then low the next or change while just sitting waiting on the green light.
    Any ideas what may be causing this?
    Also, what is the reason for drilling out the hole in the slide a tad bigger?

    Thanks in advance for any info,
    Marty
    As I said Marty, I don't know squat about the new style carbs on all TWs after 2000. Anything I might say would be pure guessing about what is causing those idle issues. The first place I would start is where the 2 throttle cables attach to the carb, make sure there is some slack in the return cable and the spring is pulling that part all the way to the fully back position when you let off the throttle. Others here such as jbfla have a much better understanding of the newer style carbs. I have zero clue about drilling any holes larger in any part of these carbs. I have gotten into some rather testy discussions here regarding carbs and my own personal opinions about all the supposed upgrades we can and do do on them. Simply put I have had excellent results on the old style carbs leaving them completely stock and by just finding the right setting with the pilot screw adjustment. I highly recommend an in line fuel filter and if at all possible keep ethanol laced fuel away from the TW and all of your small engines.
    Ken likes this.
    Be Decisive! Right or Wrong just make a decision. ​ The road of life is paved with flat squirrels that couldn't make a decision.

    Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
    If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

    1987 Yamaha BW350 Big Wheel
    2017 Snowdog Track sled tow motor for ice fishing
    Kubota BX2370 Subcompact tractor with snow blower
    Wilderness System Ride 115 fishing Kayaks

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    Senior Member Scooterbrained's Avatar
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    Thanks for your reply, Gary! I was hoping to leave the carb stock if I can. I am VERY pleased with the way it runs past 1/4 throttle all the way to full and have not one single complaint about any other aspect of the bike. The cables have the play you mention and when it is idled up high I push on the cable pulley to make sure it is seated against the stop and it is. I will keep tinkering with it and hope for the best.

    Thanks again,
    Marty
    '16 Yamaha TW200 '08 Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad '07 Kawasaki KLX250 '93 BMW R100GS Bumblebee (Mothballed)
    '99 Tacoma SR5 4WD '58 Willys CJ5 '90's Honda 4514 hydro riding mower '90's Honda 5013 compact tractor 4WD & 4W Steering

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    Senior Member Leisure Time Larry's Avatar
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    Hi all, as you sort out your carb issues, I have a couple of insights. 1) At idle, the bike is supposed to be 1,300-1,500 RPM. This seems high and sounds high by ear to a lot of riders, so they seem to turn it down. Don't. That's where it should be, for one to keep oil circulating to the top end and to keep it running smoother. 2) Like Gary eluded to, make sure the throttle parts are lubed and free, including making sure your hand grip is not hanging up the throttle tube. 3) The pilot circuit passages in the carb are very small, and if/when they get clogged up AT ALL, it causes negative symptoms. If it still runs, and you're still riding it, run a half a can of Seafoam in with a tank of gas. Ride it, let it sit to work, ride it, repeat. 4) Fuel issues can be caused by the fuel this time of year. Moisture, blend, etc. When in doubt, change it out. Dump the old fuel into a can, and throw it in your truck or something better equipped to handle it. Top off the bike with fresh fuel. Keep it topped off whenever possible to lower the chances of condensation contaminating the fuel. Also, get in the practice of giving the bike a good couple back and forth shakes before turning on the petcock. Any water in the tank will go to the bottom of the tank and will be the first thing to go into the carb.

    Now jetting... most with "new style" carbs are successful at sea level with going up to a #128 or #130 main jet, turning the pilot screw out between 2-2.5 turns, and shimming up the needle 0.020-0.050". Some swear by the #34 pilot jet, others seem fine with the stock #31. It is recommended to read up in the "technical write ups" section so you know what you're doing first. If not, you can do more harm than good by opening it up. I also recommend Yamaha parts for the jets, as I don't know what the kit makers use and how they correlate in size to OE.

    Best of luck, LTL.
    - Leisure Time Larry -
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  9. #8
    Senior Member Scooterbrained's Avatar
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    Thanks LTL,

    I have been running the Seafoam as I believe in the stuff also just not quite the concentration you speak of but about three tanks worth. I will give it a heavier swig and some more time as you suggest.
    I guess next up may be a carb dismantle and cleaning then lean in the direction of the 34 pilot jet next if this doesn't help.
    The fluctuating idle is what is really curious. Almost like a loose throttle valve plate/butterfly.

    Thanks for the suggestions,
    Marty
    '16 Yamaha TW200 '08 Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad '07 Kawasaki KLX250 '93 BMW R100GS Bumblebee (Mothballed)
    '99 Tacoma SR5 4WD '58 Willys CJ5 '90's Honda 4514 hydro riding mower '90's Honda 5013 compact tractor 4WD & 4W Steering

  10. #9
    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    Why the drilled hole? To introduce the needed fuel to a carb set deliberately lean in preparation for Dial-a-Jet installation.

    From their marketing:

    " Dial-A-Jet is an add fuel only device. You cannot add fuel to an engine that is running rich or has an adequate fuel supply and hope to gain horsepower. You must create a lean condition so that Dial-A-Jet has a window of opportunity to function. Dial-A-Jet will automatically fill in the lean areas of the fuel curve giving you optimum performance. The fine emulsified fuel charge can’t displace the heavier poorly atomized fuel from the other circuits so it takes the path of least resistance and fills in the lean mix areas eliminating fuel spiking and giving you a consistent fuel flow pattern producing stable temperatures and horsepower. The only way Dial-A-Jet can fail to perform is if you do not get the carburetor within range of the Dial-A-Jet. This usually means that the main jet is too large. You must create a slightly lean condition so the Dial-A-Jet has a working range. This is typically about three or four jet sizes below a properly jetted machine. A single Dial-A-Jet will deliver 10% to 15% of your overall fuel curve in an emulsified state. There are five automatic fuel ranges you can select from on each Dial-A-Jet. Simply rotate the dial to raise or lower your fuel curve. With Dial-A-Jet each carburetor can be adjusted independently. This is a huge advantage for maximizing the full potential of each cylinder while giving you great protection against burn down.

    Dial-A-Jet is an acoustical device that is triggered by acoustic sound signals. The acoustic signal is generated when gasoline is ignited in the cylinder just inches away from the Dial-A-Jet. This signal amplifies the pumping action created by the reversionary pulse waves that occur naturally in any engine’s intake tract. The acoustic signal along with normal engine vacuum or fuel signal causes fuel to be delivered to the engine. We have all heard the sound of a fat, over-jetted engine such as you hear at high altitude or very warm weather riding. It’s the whaaa whaaa sound. This is a slow, fuel rich reversionary pulse wave in the intake tract. This would give Dial-A-Jet a de-amplified fuel signal resulting in little or no fuel being inducted. The reverse of this is also true. A crisp lean sounding engine generates a fast sharp reversionary pulse wave, triggering Dial-A-Jet to automatically induct fuel. Detonation is an extreme lean condition that generates a sharp reversionary pulse wave. This excites the Dial-A-Jet causing a rapid response with additional fuel delivery to stave off engine damage. Remember that we are moving a very light weight emulsified fuel charge. This is the reason it is so responsive to the engine’s fuel needs over such a broad range"

    Perfectly clear now, it's just an acoustic device?
    2003 TW200 "Betty Boop"
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  11. #10
    Senior Member jbfla's Avatar
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    Fred, Dynojet, not Dial-a-jet.

    The hole drilled is the small hole next to the needle hole on the inside of the slide on CV carbs.

    Some believe enlarging that hole will enable the slide to rise more quickly.

    If you drill the hole too large, it has the opposite effect.

    jb
    Darth likes this.
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