What kind of or, how much *Extra* electrical power does the T-dub have?
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Thread: What kind of or, how much *Extra* electrical power does the T-dub have?

  1. #1
    Senior Member FIRE UP's Avatar
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    What kind of or, how much *Extra* electrical power does the T-dub have?

    Gang,
    I see some of you running an extra set of lights, mostly LED stuff, on the front to augment your standard T-dub headlight. Just wondering, I've not seen any form of spec on the electrical system of the T-dub in terms of what that system puts out. Now, I'm not talking volts here. I'm talking AMPS. I realize there's no alternator and or generator. It's a STATOR that puts out the juice. So, after all the juice that's needed to run the bike, headlight, tail light, turn signals etc., what's left in terms of AMPS, 1, 3, 5, ZERO, what?
    Scott
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  2. #2
    Senior Member FIRE UP's Avatar
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    Wow,
    22 views so far and no one can answer about the electrical output of a TW, hmmmm.
    Scott
    Retired SDFD, 30 years,
    2004 Itasca Horizon 36GD CAT C-7 330HP
    2008 Honda GL1800 Goldwing Caliente red
    2007 TW 200 "Blue Noid"
    2115 Jeep JKUR Rubicon
    2011 GMC Sierra 1500 Extended Cab 4x4
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    Me, the wife and our killer Mini Schnauzer, "Sophie"

  3. #3
    Super Moderator littletommy's Avatar
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    Don't you mean left over watt's?
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    Super Moderator littletommy's Avatar
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    Newer Model Power Output averaged at 14v






    RPM ............... AMPS.....................WATTS


    2000 ..................8............................112


    4000 ..................13..........................182


    6000 ..................14..........................196


    8000 ..................15..........................210










    Early Models 87-2000






    RPM.........Amps........Watts


    2000............1..............14


    4000...........2.2...........30.8


    8000...........3..............42


    11000.........3.3...........46.2
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    1st John 1:9
    If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    John 3:16
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 3:17
    For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

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  6. #5
    Super Moderator littletommy's Avatar
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    Bikes are built to use not more than 75% of the electrical output.

    So there is some extra...
    1st John 1:9
    If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    John 3:16
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 3:17
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    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    I am not an electrical wizard by any stretch so let me make that clear. My suspicion regarding these electrical systems and again it is pure suspicion is that the battery you have plays a major role. With the stock lead/acid battery the bike tends to do pretty well as long as the battery is in full working condition. You should be OK adding a couple additional light loads. If I were looking to add much more than an extra light such as heated grips and 12V sockets for an air compressor plus a phone charging mounts and GPS I think I would search for a newer type AGM or Lithium Ion battery that has greater internal specs but also keep in mind the charging factors involved with such batteries. You do need to be careful here because the type of charge coming from the stator may or may not be suitable for various types of batteries. I have what is termed a "Smart Charger" said to be capable of detecting the type of battery connected to it and adjust accordingly. It does light different lights when I charge the standard deep cycle marine lead/acid batteries and again different when I charge the AGM ones I have for other machines and devices plus when I charge full Gel batteries. I think they all require some sort of different current and our TWs are specifically designed to charge only lead acid batteries. I have no idea what these differences are and I would be very careful using the newer and much more powerful Lithium Ion batteries until I made sure the charging system is right for them.
    I do know this much. On my kayak with an electric trolling motor I can run at full speed for about 6 hours with a heavy deep cycle lead acid battery. I can go the same speed for close to 12 hours when I use the same size and weight AGM battery.

    GaryL
    Last edited by GaryL; 10-31-2019 at 06:38 AM.
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  8. #7
    Super Moderator Purple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryL View Post
    our TWs are specifically designed to charge only lead acid batteries.
    That should read “Our TW’s are designed to provide 14vDC to the battery constantly”

    This suits a lead acid battery in its native environment, but is also good for a “modified” Lithium battery, the modification being that it has overcharge protection. The two things that a lead acid can cope with but a Lithium cannot, are “De-sulphate mode” where a charger slams all it can down the wires, and “trickle charge”, when the charger tries to keep the battery “topped off”

    The TW provides neither of these – just 14vDC constant

    Provided the Lithium battery has that overcharge protection in place, it will simply charge up when it needs it, and not accept a charge when it doesn’t. The sort of Lithium batteries we’re like to encounter are deliberately built with this in mind, and are suitable for automotive use knowing full well that they will encounter 14vDC constantly

    The question of whether you should keep a Lithium on a “battery tender trickle charge” over winter, depends on whether you want to have a live indoor AC circuit feeding your bike constantly, bearing in mind that Lithium is likely to be fine for up to six months anyway – your place, your risk – but I wouldn’t recommend it. After six months, sure, charge it for a couple of hours, but that’s all it’s going to need. The average automotive Lithium has under charge protection as well, so you’re not going to hurt it

    As for the comment on over spec – sure – if you are worried about the bikes stator not keeping up with demand, then get a Lithium battery that can keep things going for longer. This will only work if you either charge up the battery most days, or switch out the extra lights/heated grips etc when not needed to give the battery a chance to recover

    This question comes up almost annually, but the answer is mostly the same:

    For the ’87 – forget it – different system
    From ’88 to 2001 the headlight bulb is rated at 35W (for a reason)
    From 2001 onwards, the headlight bulb is rated at 55W (improved stator output)

    I’m not entirely sure that LT’s figures are correct, though I have no reason to doubt him, (he’s usually right). But the figures supplied suggest a four or five fold increase, and I’m not quite sure why Yamaha would do that

    But the fact remains – if those figures for the 2001 plus models are correct, you should be able to run two extra headlights, heated grips, and still have enough left over to mount a lighthouse on the back

    The thing is – no-one’s ever come back and said “My battery can’t keep up”

    Bear in mind given the figures, (so it’s all LT’s fault) that they suggest that pre 2001 is the most susceptible to stress, If you want to try “loading” a TW, then the later model would be a good starting point. Also consider that the humble lead acid battery is likely to “boil dry” if you get it wrong

    And if you do try this – let us know how you get on (and try not to live up to your nick) ;)

    (Apologies for not replying sooner, but getting life insurance on a third party can often cause such a delay) ......
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  9. #8
    Senior Member GaryL's Avatar
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    Batteries can be very hard to understand. My favorite batteries so far have been the VMax Tanks AGM (Absorbed Glass Matt) batteries. I reached out to them regarding the charging and trickle charging with my Battery Tender Jr. fixtures. Their response for the Battery Tender chargers was that I SHOULD NOT keep them on the AGM battery. They have their own trickle chargers they sell so out of an abundance of caution I bought one of their specifically designed chargers just to be as safe as possible.
    I recently made a rather serious mistake with a 12V, 7 Amp Hour sealed lead acid battery. This battery powers my fish finder for ice fishing. I zapped it with a regular battery charger on the lower setting which is 5 amps. I left it too long and completely cooked the battery. Then I read the warning right on the cooked battery, Maximum recharge amperage of 2.1 Amps. Use extreme caution when charging batteries and just be sure the zap you are giving them is not more than the battery can take.
    Again, not being an electrical wizard, take my advice for what ever it is worth. Lots of automobile fires are started because the voltage regulator went bad and allowed the battery to get severely overcharged and start the fire. My neighbor burned his house to the ground by leaving his car battery hooked up to a faulty charger in his garage that was supposed to drop down to a trickle once the battery reached full charge. Shit happens I guess and any electrical device is subject to fail. I charge my batteries in the middle of my garage floor away from any other combustible objects. I also leave a note right here by my computer "Batteries Charging" which reminds me to keep a constant check to be sure they are not overheating. Never charge any lead acid batteries in an enclosed area as they emit dangerous fumes that could cause an explosion. I don't honestly know if putting an inline fuse between the charger and battery will help to keep things safe in the event the charger fails to drop down to trickle.

    GaryL
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  10. #9
    Senior Member RockyTFS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple View Post
    The thing is – no-one’s ever come back and said “My battery can’t keep up”....
    Well, I certainly have. I have had this problem with both post 2001 TWs. I tend to ride quite slowly in the bush, and all I have is a GPS hard wired to the battery (less than 1 amp). I used to leave it on when stopped intermittently during the day, and I eventually ran the battery down to the point I had to push start the bike one day. My solution was to pull the connector on the low beam and the always on front signals (and later switch to LED's which don't have that feature). I just wasn't getting enough RPM's to keep the battery charged....I never had a problem on the street. I would just turn on the high beam when I returned to the pavement.

    After this mod I could run a heated vest from the same plug, but that's about all. It takes 4.5 amps. Without the mods I would be drawing down the battery (AGM) at my low speeds. The headlight draws about the same 4.5 amps, so a ballpark answer to the OP's question is that below 4000 RPM there is almost nothing extra. You can use LT's numbers to do a power draw inventory and compare it to output at various RPM's.
    Last edited by RockyTFS; 10-31-2019 at 09:51 AM.
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  11. #10
    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with a discharge rate exceeding your recharge rate, your battery provides the make-up wattage. Now this can be done for only so long before battery gets drawn down to levels of operator concern but nothing terrible or damaging is occurring. Operator's responsibility to monitor this intelligently.
    Reducing what we call the "hotel load" , the always on current draws, like headlight, indicator, clearance & tail lights with LED rather than incandescent bulbs reduces the time your added accessories draw more current than the charging system provides. Intermittent current draws like horn & turn signals may be dismissed unless you lay on the horn constantly like a N.Y. cab driver or forget & leave your turn signals on like me.

    Certainly the battery box will accept a larger rated LiPo4 battery than the stock 8 amp hour lead acid battery. The 8 amp hour LiPo4 vended as a direct replacement for our TWs occupies about half of the available space so a significantly larger LiPo4 battery in both size and current capacity may be fitted. This would permit longer excursions into the realm of discharge rate exceeding recharge rate.
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