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Ive been doing a lot of trail riding and would like to be able to pick the front up for little jumps without clutch play. Does anyone that is currently running a 13 tooth front or 55 rear have any opinion about this issue?
13 tooth sprocket
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55/14=3.92:1, 7,747 [email protected] MPH.
50/13=3.84:1, 7,554 [email protected] 55MPH.
Almost the same difference. 'Cept the 13 will be harder on chains.
Stock ratio is 3.57:1, 7,042 [email protected] MPH
50/13=3.84:1, 7,554 [email protected] 55MPH.
Almost the same difference. 'Cept the 13 will be harder on chains.
Stock ratio is 3.57:1, 7,042 [email protected] MPH
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3.66:1 ? my snail is on 2 with stock sprockets, not sure if thats the same for everyone, or how much that changes with the larger sprockets but it was a concern when the larger sprocket thought crossed my mind
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Yeah, i've been playing with the sprocket/speed calculator ( http://www.it-ideas.net/bike/calc.htm ) and figured they were pretty close but I really just want to know if it will make the throttle a bit more "torquey"? My friend was talkin about it and thinks it will be easier to go back and forth between a 13 and 15 tooth front sprocket since I wont need to add and remove links from the chain as oppose to doing a 47 or 45-55 dual rear dprocket set-up. But at the same time, he has a split case that makes it much easier to get to the front sprocket.
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I would avoid the 13 tooth front. I bought one and installed it. I found that the chain on the bottom side had clearance issues with the swingarm frame (with a 50 tooth rear).
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Why would it have clearance issues with the swingarm frame? Not that i dont believe you, i just dont understand.
Who here has the dual sprocket setup? Do you just keep some extra chain around for switching to the larger sprocket?
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255 Posts
I have the dual rear sprocket setup with a 50 and 55 tooth. The bike certainly crawls easier with no clutch use with the 55 and will even lift the front end easier. I only cruise at 80kph on the highway and only for short distances. If I have to go longer distances I switch over to the 50 tooth. With a 5 tooth spread on sprockets I was able add links that allows the chain to work on both sprockets. It only takes 5 minutes to change over and I regularly need the extra torque in the mountains. When I added the 55 tooth sprocket I placed it on the outboard position on the axle hub. My reasoning was any chain offset would be present at lower speeds and mostly offroad. At highway speeds the 50 tooth is in the factory position and will cause no potential problems. With the wider O-ring chain you have to be very precise about spacer thickness between the sprockets or something is going to rub. Good luck with whatever you decide.
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The 13 has a smaller diameter, which brings the chain run up from the bottom, and down at the top, if that makes any sense.
It also forces the chain to make a tighter bend, which can be a factor in chain life.
With the proper math you can come up with a pretty good spread on a dual sprocket setup and retain the same chain length, as long as you go dual in the front (think Gizmow)with two different tooth counts (13/14, 14/15 etc.) but you'd have to machine one of the shoulders off the larger sprocket for chain clearance. Radical departures will mean adding a chunk of chain when you change gearing.
I think Qwerty did some sample math on this once upon a time.
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Hello,
To place a 13 tooth front is a bad idea...
It is better to put of 14/60 = 4,28:1
J' tested many possibilities...
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1,761 Posts
I'm thinking that I may just go for a dual rear set up of 55 and 50. Can you run the chain guard without modification with a dual rear setup? I saw a pic of a sprocket that goes around the other and is held to it with 4 bolts. I am guessing this is not something youd be able to buy online? Would this be a good idea?
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I trimmed off the inside lip of the guard and shimmed it to the left so it wouldn't rub. The front inside mount had already been removed for clearance with the tire chain. With the 50 tooth sprocket left at the inboard position the spacer I made was 3/8". Made it out of steel but I'm sure aluminum would work just as well and is a lot easier to work with. An additional 5/16" flat washer was also required. I also drilled out the sprocket and hub holes to 3/8" and used longer bolts with lock nuts, almost zero play.I think the trick is to use longer than required bolts with enough unthreaded shaft to span all the sprockets and spacers, cut the bolt to the required length and chase the threads with a die so the nut can tighten completely. With that spacing the outbard 55 tooth sprocket is very close to the swing arm but does not touch. I used a JT steel 55 tooth sprocket and I'm not sure if other brands would be the same thickness. I've seen the two piece sprocket you talk about but changing gears would require removing the back wheel and changing the chain length. I would also think that as the smaller diameter sprocket developed wear the larger sprocket would have a progressively looser fit. It would almost be as easy to just use a second larger sprocket.
If you do this and have any questions send me an email. Good luck.
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228 Posts
An alternate solution: I run dual sprocket but it's a two in one system. Takes a little more to switch over. But since I pull a trailer I want the chain to remain inline. But the side by side method works just fine.
I believe Kennedy Sprocket in Tennessee still can make these and maybe Sidewinder Gears in Illinois.
This is a 47 inner and 55 outer. This system was very common back in the 1960s before dual range transmissions came along----especially on bikes like the Honda 50s and 90s, etc.
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As lizrdbrth stated with regard to the 13 tooth counter sprocket---- the smaller diameter of the 13 tooth combined with 50 tooth rear or smaller will cause the chain to strike the bottom of the swing arm. Whether that is an issue with a 55 or larger I cannot say. Also as mentioned above you cannot use a 13 tooth bolted sprocket the chain runs into the bolts you need to use a clip style sprocket keeper.
I believe Kennedy Sprocket in Tennessee still can make these and maybe Sidewinder Gears in Illinois.
This is a 47 inner and 55 outer. This system was very common back in the 1960s before dual range transmissions came along----especially on bikes like the Honda 50s and 90s, etc.
As lizrdbrth stated with regard to the 13 tooth counter sprocket---- the smaller diameter of the 13 tooth combined with 50 tooth rear or smaller will cause the chain to strike the bottom of the swing arm. Whether that is an issue with a 55 or larger I cannot say. Also as mentioned above you cannot use a 13 tooth bolted sprocket the chain runs into the bolts you need to use a clip style sprocket keeper.
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TW2007, do you recall which aftermarket company produced the overlay sprockets which had a carrier for the outer overlay? In other words the outer sprocket slipped inboard and locked out of the way, similar to some of the early CT setups. I think someone had this wired back in the '60's and offered it to fit a number of bikes back then. I'd love to get a good look at one again.
My dad had a Honda 55 with the split overlay sprockets and a length of chain in the little tool kit. That poor little bike hauled him and his hunting buddy (both 200-pounders) all over these mountains. You couldn't see the bike beneath them and they looked like two monkeys on a football, but it kept on tickin'
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Where did you get your overlay setup?
My dad had a Honda 55 with the split overlay sprockets and a length of chain in the little tool kit. That poor little bike hauled him and his hunting buddy (both 200-pounders) all over these mountains. You couldn't see the bike beneath them and they looked like two monkeys on a football, but it kept on tickin'
Where did you get your overlay setup?
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TW2007, do you recall which aftermarket company produced the overlay sprockets which had a carrier for the outer overlay? In other words the outer sprocket slipped inboard and locked out of the way, similar to some of the early CT setups. I think someone had this wired back in the '60's and offered it to fit a number of bikes back then. I'd love to get a good look at one again.
My dad had a Honda 55 with the split overlay sprockets and a length of chain in the little tool kit. That poor little bike hauled him and his hunting buddy (both 200-pounders) all over these mountains. You couldn't see the bike beneath them and they looked like two monkeys on a football, but it kept on tickin'.![]()
Where did you get your overlay setup?
I believe it was Kennedy in Tennessee.
Mike
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You know when you go over a large speedbump size dirt pile? I always want to pick the front end up a bit. I've rejetted and shimmed the carb but it wont lift the front without using the clutch. Would I still have to use clutch if I went with a 55t rear sprocket?
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The 55 tooth sprocket makes it easier for me to unload the front end, not wheelie style but certainly gets the front over easier. I still have to tug on the handlebars and good timing helps. I don't use the clutch just twist the throttle. When I want to look like an invincible 15 year old I stand on the passenger pegs, No tugging required.
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In doing that kind of change, I have always preferred to go to a larger rear sprocket than a smaller front sprocket.
My reasoning is that it is less stressful on the chain than a small front. Longer chain life and longer sprocket life.
If how ever, it is just an expiremental change to see if you like it, go ahead. If you like it, then on the next chain refresher get two new sprockets in the sizes you like.
BTW Lofting the front wheel is an action that requires quick RPM response regardless of final drive ratios.
Something the TW engine is not famous for. Such ratios will enhance hill climbing ability positively anyway.
For lofting the front over abrupt obstacles, stand on the pegs and hike your butt to the rear.
Practice this skill to become smooth at it.
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So i'm thinking dual sprockets is the way to go. Im gonna keep the 14t front. Trying to decide between 47/52, 49/54 or 50/55 for the rear.
Any opinions will be greatly appreciated!
Any opinions will be greatly appreciated!
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