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I found it interesting at my local Yamaha dealer, Not that I have much use for him. He does not carry any TWs in stock and claims he can't sell them as long as he has the Suzuki Van Van on the floor with the same MSRP. He claims he can Special Order in a TW but in doing that you have to pay additional freight and set up fees. In this dealers service shop he refuses to even work on any bike over 10 years old stating he has too much trouble sourcing parts and there is always too much wrong with bikes over 10 years old to be bothered with.

GaryL
 

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I found it interesting at my local Yamaha dealer, Not that I have much use for him. He does not carry any TWs in stock and claims he can't sell them as long as he has the Suzuki Van Van on the floor with the same MSRP. He claims he can Special Order in a TW but in doing that you have to pay additional freight and set up fees. In this dealers service shop he refuses to even work on any bike over 10 years old stating he has too much trouble sourcing parts and there is always too much wrong with bikes over 10 years old to be bothered with.

GaryL
Hmm. None of the "we don't work on bikes 10yrs or older" makes sense to me in regards to a TW200. They're still making that bike, so ALL the parts are more/less easily attainable direct from Yamaha or OEM resellers. They haven't changed it since 2001. I think you can still get actual pre 2001 parts from those same sources for the most part?

I guess I understand the VanVan/TW issues—brands gives dealers a lot of shit for that kind of stuff. The dealer where I bought my 2019 TW from had one more on the floor right away, but now they have a VanVan and no TWs ... so it looks like they probably sold out of their TW stock, and had some VanVan stock they could then release and sell.
 
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You are right about the TWs not changing much Tyler but this dealer seems to think he has the market cornered here and just decided he won't allow his service department take on project bikes over 10 years old. Stupid IMO but I would not take any of my bikes to him for service nor would I buy a bike from his shop so it makes no difference to me. His attitude about not carrying any TWs in stock is also a complete turn off but it is possible he has a hard time selling the new ones here. TWs that appear on the local CL don't last very long unless they are highly overpriced.

GaryL
 
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The main reason a dealer won't take on a 10+ year old bike is that there's too many hidden things. Let's say he has to pull the side cover off to replace worn clutch plates and the clutch cable fails while he's messing with it. Unless he documented in the cost of the cable on the estimate, he's liable to restore the bike to it's condition when it arrived. At least here in California, that is the law. If the bike came in with a working clutch cable, it goes out with a working clutch cable and unless it was on the estimate, the shop pays for it.
This is a big reason just the cost of an estimate are usually pricey; just testing a clutch cable might make it fail in the process of doing up the estimate. So a shop might charge $100 for an estimate that doesn't involve a cover removal and $400 if a cover to the engine has to be removed.
This is covered under Bureau Of Automotive Repair or BAR.
I once took a motorcycle in for a valve adjustment. Little did I or the shop know the cam was bad. He charged me $100 to write up an estimate to go towards labor if no other issues were involved. When he realized the valves would not adjust, he popped to OHV cover off and found the cam nearly worn in two. Under BAR laws, he has to return the bike in like-condition as it arrived. In my case; running. He couldn't and when he gave me a quote of $1,200 for repairs, I said no, putting him on the hook to make it as it was when it came in. (Again, running)
He explained the situation and we worked out a deal; I would pay for parts at cost and he'd throw in the labor for free.
 

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Say it isn't so??????? I've been holding out on my purchase hoping for a 2020 fuel injected model???????????
i have found out that fuel injection has it down side. the bike manufactures still send their bikes over here running lean to pass the epa. with a carb you can reject for $50, to get out of the lean condition with fuel injection you need to buy a fuel programmer, for $300. so it cost 6x the money to get a bike that doesn't need a choke
 

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Think Yamaha is working on some motorcycle models that don't need a human. Where's the fun in that?

 

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When I have to I deal with 2 dealerships. One is my local Yamaha dealer but they also sell Urals (mine is in for a clutch right now), Kymco and a few other oddballs. They have been around since 1960 and started back then selling BMW & Brit brands. They will work on any bike and any year. The mechanics are seasoned and when I get busy at work I will bring them a "Winter Project" and tell them to "just get it running and take your time". There are no kids working there that just came out of MMI that only work on or have a general knowledge of one brand of motorcycle. They are more of an old time shop though there is a huge Yamaha sign over the showroom. Interestingly boats (Yamaha boats) and Jetski's have become almost a bigger part of their business nowadays.
Same goes for what used to be a Honda dealer not far away. They now sell multiple brands and work on any bike and any year. Same as the Yammy dealer Jetskis and water craft are almost edging out motorcycle sales. I guess folks that own them really don't service them themselves. They also shrink-wrap them and store on every foot of their property over the Winter.

There seems to always be a TW200 & VanVan on the showroom floor next to each other and priced exactly the same all the time. Just one of each. Noticed the TW was gone when I dropped off my wife's Vespa (yeah, they sell and service those too) a week ago. The VanVan has been there for a long time. Love that seat, it's a cool bike.

The shops/dealers that say only one brand service or nothing over 10 years old... they would not survive around where I live. Only the Harley dealer can get away with something like that. Even they will work on anything up to 100 years old, Ha.
 
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The road I live on is a major MC route heading over to the route 97 Hawks Nest scenic highway. On any nice Friday, Saturday or Sunday and on every summer holiday I see thousands of MCs go by in large groups. Brands are often hard to distinguish but by and far I am sure that Harley has the Lion's share where the big cruisers are concerned. Last weekend we sat out front and in just one group we counted 102 big cruisers pass by and lots of them were trikes and full dressers with stereos blaring. Lately we are seeing quite a few Adventure type bikes like BMWs and others I can't ID. Then of course we see a lot of sport bikes fly by at crazy speeds and in full tuck which scares me to death given all the deer, bear and turkeys all over these roads. Every year we have a couple lives lost from crashes and the majority of them are sports bikes that did not navigate the twisting turns at high speeds or slammed into a critter. Every now and then I look out and can hear a few TWs pass by as they sure do have their own distinctive sound. 2 Strokes are pretty rare these days around here except in the local sand and gravel pits. Most of the area dealers are not all that particular and most carry a few brands and will work on any but the one Yamaha dealer who also carries Suzuki, Kawasaki and Polaris is overly particular and has his own rules regarding working on older bikes. He is not well thought of in these parts and I have no clue how he can remain in business. Any machine I would want to buy that he sells can be bought much cheaper over in PA which is just 30 miles from my NY home. The attached photo is where all of these groups are heading and the route 97 ride along the Delaware River is worth the trip.

GaryL

Hawks Nest.jpg

Every day I swap the SD cards in my trail cams out at the edge of my back yard and this is a daily capture on them.

WGI_0023.JPG
 

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Nice pictures Gary of that twisty and your neighborhood bears.
The Harley dealer can get away with it (working on one brand) because almost all of the other are dealerships bit the dust in 2007-2008 financial meltdown. Perhaps there were too many in a tight-knit area but you have to travel 25-30 miles to get to the nearest one if you don't like the one in my town, 2 miles away. Not throwing one of these on a VersaHaul.

Their service dept. is overwhelmed. I'm doubtful that most buyers of these beasts new are doing any of their own work other than bolting on accessories and maybe the more adventurous, doing an oil change. They look old and traditional but they are (like most others) a complicated mix of modern technology and equipment. My friends that have Power Commanders and other EFI mapping devices are very careful not to go too far from stock settings. The ones that do always end up at the dealer for them to reset all the electronics. Just because Vance & Hines says their product will enhance performance it almost seems that without some sort of special dongle from Harley... they purposely include software to screw you up when you don't buy the product from them.
I like HD but if I ever go back to owning one a 2005-2007 Heritage Softail Springer would be the newest and only model I'd consider. It's a bucket-list bike for me. My '99 Softial was a carb bike, one of the last years before they all were EFI and had the fake dual-fuel tanks. Easy to work on. Part of ownership of these bikes (any bike) is being able to tinker or futz around with them. Sadly you can't do that with most new products so you see my preferred list and years of bikes I own below. All run quite well and all on the road though sometimes overwhelming space-wise.
I definitely gotta get a life.
 

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Nice pictures Gary of that twisty and your neighborhood bears.
The Harley dealer can get away with it (working on one brand) because almost all of the other are dealerships bit the dust in 2007-2008 financial meltdown. Perhaps there were too many in a tight-knit area but you have to travel 25-30 miles to get to the nearest one if you don't like the one in my town, 2 miles away. Not throwing one of these on a VersaHaul.

Their service dept. is overwhelmed. I'm doubtful that most buyers of these beasts new are doing any of their own work other than bolting on accessories and maybe the more adventurous, doing an oil change. They look old and traditional but they are (like most others) a complicated mix of modern technology and equipment. My friends that have Power Commanders and other EFI mapping devices are very careful not to go too far from stock settings. The ones that do always end up at the dealer for them to reset all the electronics. Just because Vance & Hines says their product will enhance performance it almost seems that without some sort of special dongle from Harley... they purposely include software to screw you up when you don't buy the product from them.
I like HD but if I ever go back to owning one a 2005-2007 Heritage Softail Springer would be the newest and only model I'd consider. It's a bucket-list bike for me. My '99 Softial was a carb bike, one of the last years before they all were EFI and had the fake dual-fuel tanks. Easy to work on. Part of ownership of these bikes (any bike) is being able to tinker or futz around with them. Sadly you can't do that with most new products so you see my preferred list and years of bikes I own below. All run quite well and all on the road though sometimes overwhelming space-wise.
I definitely gotta get a life.
I completely understand Mike and agree with the overly technical way Harley's are progressing. Not really much for the home garage mechanic to do except basic maintenance. I do have some issues with the Harley brand and have no intention of ever owning one. This company has been around for over 100 years yet they still can't figure out which side their bread is buttered on. I know through the past 30 or more years they have been acquired by various major companies such as AMF and maybe Brunswick or some others and all were poorly accepted. Moving production in any form to China and/or India will be yet another disaster. If Harley wants to continue to be the American Motorcycle then they should just stay right here in America and enjoy the fruits of our labors with the freedoms America insures. I won't say they must have unquestionable support for President Trump but going against the economic successes from his policies is just plain dumb IMO. If a Harley/Davidson bike comes with a label that says Made in India or China they will certainly be big losers in the long run.

GaryL
 

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What, 3 years running with the same color scheme and not even any "Bold New Graphics" :eek: !?

I doubt if the U.S. Market will ever see fuel injection on the TW. If U.S. emissions standards ever mandated it, my guess is that Yamaha will simply discontinue TW sales here as they done in other parts of the world. Much as I would like to see it, we should be careful what we ask for :(.

Let's just be thankful that the "same old, same old" continues to be made available to us, at least for one more year :D.
Well,
To me, it's kind-a odd that, given the TW is still carbureted in the year 2019 and is a 200 CC "dual sport" model when, at least for '17 and on, (maybe even earlier, I've not looked), the Suzuki "VanVan" which, is almost an identical clone to the TW, has been fuel injected. And, even the Honda "Monkey" bike, which is a reminiscent replay of the Honda Z-50 of the '60s, is a 125 cc street-off road combo bike and, it's not only fuel injected but, is optioned with ABS as well. So, for whatever reason, Yamaha is either not needing to blend in with fuel emission requirements which means simply, If they don't have to blend in, they don't need to meander in the search and development department to create a fuel injected TW.

https://powersports.honda.com/street/minimoto/monkey?year=2019

Suzuki Cycles - Product Lines - Cycles - Products - RV200 - 2018 - RV200
 

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Take a look at the VanVan exhaust pipe – it’s huge – and that’s because it’s a Cat

There’s a lot more going on with the VanVan than “just” the EFI

But previous comments, Grewen’s in particular, highlight the disadvantages of EFI, and that if it isn’t set up correctly right out of the box, you’re in a world of pain trying to fix it. Any engine modification to that bike, electrical (CDI), exhaust system etc, and you’ll need to re-programme the thing using a laptop. Buy into the VanVan, and its best left well alone

The TW on the other hand, is wide open to “tweaking”, that’s why we like it (whether or not we even need to do it is another matter)

Imagine a board where every “My bike won’t start” thread begins with “You need a Laptop with the following software, please post your diagnostic results, so that we can tell you the location of your nearest dealership”

Progress is often a dillusion, the VanVan being a case in point – the VanVan started out as a two stroke 125 with points and a condenser

The TW’s strongest point, is that is hasn’t needed to change in 30 years, and that’s the dichotomy. How long can Yamaha keep that going – emissions over practicality – one defeating the other until the balance changes by legislation

The colour scheme is the last of your worries …..
 

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I don't mean to start an argument here but I own two fuel-injected bikes (KTM 990, Honda Grom) and several carb'd ATV's, a carb'd VW-powered Manx 'Buggy and a VW Thing with a modern(ish) fuel-injected engine in it. Personally I prefer to trouble shoot the EFI models I own as opposed to the carb'd models as there is something to be said for getting a CEL, pulling a code (most of the time on a bike it doesn't require a special tool or a laptop from what I've seen, although yes there are exceptions) googling what the code means, then looking in the direction which it points. Sure it's not a perfect science but I'm a fan. Case-in-point I recently spent a week riding with a friend who rides a modern WR250R which developed a hard-start condition on the first day of our week-long trip. Without using any special tools or a laptop my friend was able to pull the codes he was getting and test every sensor on the bike individually all from the stock gauge cluster. I was impressed and if Yamaha adopted that same system on a TW I'd buy one tonight!

Kevin
 
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You are not starting any argument here Kev and most of us would agree with one exception and it is a rather big exception. Basically you can buy a brand new TW for under $5,000 OTD with all the taxes, fees and title paid. How many thousands more is a WR250R that comes with all the benefits you rightly describe? Also something to be considered is how many WR250Rs will still be running 32 years from today like so many of our TWs are? My buddy and member here Bucknutz has a real sweet WR250R and it sure is a great bike however it is not without similar issues you describe and he has yet to figure out the on board gauge cluster that probably could get the bike right by throwing the codes and directing him to the fix. Some of us are what I call Analog men/woman living in a Digital world. For a good number of years I lived with a VCR in my living room that always showed the time on the display but it was only right twice each day 12:00. Yes, I could get the clock correctly reset but every time we had a power outage even for just a split second it went right back to 12:00 so I quit even bothering resetting the dumb thing.
I sure do love those On Board clusters and in particular the ones that don't require a special Dealer owned code reader. Funny story here but it fits with this discussion. We have a real nice kitchen Frigidaire Gallery edition SS french door fridge that is only 5 years old and cost us $2500. We had some real nasty storms roll through a while back and the power kept going off and back on probably 6 times during these storms. In the morning all the food in the fridge was warm and I could not reset the temp at all. I called the service repair guy and he could not get here for at least a week because a lot of others were also having issues. We went out and bought another new and even fancier fridge for $3600 because we can't live for a week without one. The repair guy gets here as scheduled 6 days later and I had the nice broken fridge in the garage and all cleaned up and just needed to know how expensive it was going to be to repair it. He called in to the Tech line at Frigidaire and they walked him through the On Board cluster functions. It took him all of 10 minutes on the phone and pushing buttons as directed and the fridge came back to life. No parts, nothing broken or needing repair and just a simple reboot of the On Board computer. I paid the $100 service call fee and now we have 2 real nice fridges. What chaps my ass is that Frigidaire could have but refused to walk me through these simple steps and insisted that an Authorized Repair Tech had to service the unit. Evidently the power outages and subsequent surges knocked the computer settings off far enough that they had to be reset to the factory settings. Some of these On Board systems are "Proprietary" and can only be accessed by Authorized Factory service Techs. Between all the food lost, the repair fee and the cost of the new fridge I could have bought a new TW if I wanted one.

GaryL
 
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TW is a bread-&-butter bargain basement bike for Yamaha. Without almost any particular upgrades over the years it still sells strongly in all markets. Other than color schemes and a few tweaks over the years it is the forgotten step-child of Yamaha. They have no incentive to upgrade this model.

If they do it will be another better model called something else or maybe a re-badged version/same name but very different. Perhaps the same fat tires.
It sells the way it is, that's the point.

That VanVan is still on the showroom floor, the TW is gone/sold.
 
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One major point that seems to be overlooked often with the TW and all the carb issues is the cause of all the strife. There is nothing at all wrong with the carbs and almost every issue we talk about so often here is a direct result of bad fuel or poor storage usually for long periods. All motors that use fuel and have metal fuel tanks connected to carerators suffer the same exact problems. Bad fuel can be described as either old and stale fuel left in the tanks that attract moisture from the atmosphere because the system is a vented one that has a direct link to outside air and the moisture or humidity in it. Bad fuel can also be described as fuels with ethanol in them which is in all essence alcohol which is a moisture attractant. E fuels tend to break down faster and more pronounced than non E fuels and it matters very little what preventative measure you take with additives. Rust forms inside the tank against the inside metal and the E fuels go through the process of Phase Separation where any moisture that gets in creates a condition for rust. The petcock has fine mesh screen filters to keep much of the tiny particles out of the carb plus the carb float valve has a fine mesh screen filter to aid in keeping the junk from entering the carb. You can also add an in-line fuel filter however none of these will keep the moisture from passing through and into the carb. Next is the fuel bowl at the bottom of the carb where this old, bad and stale fuel could sit for long periods. Again, the fuel system is vented to the outside atmosphere so any fuel left sitting in the float bowl can also attract moisture and turn stale and start the corrosion of parts.
TWs that are used often or daily rarely ever have fuel/carb issues while those that sit for long periods with ageing gas do. It is my personal belief that a bike such as a Van Van with EFI rather than a carb will also suffer similar fuel issues if left the same as many TWs for long periods with ageing fuel in the tanks and fuel injection systems. Face a few facts guys and gals. How often do we see TWs that are 10 and more years old that have under 1,000 miles on them. Based on about 70 miles per gallon in these 1.8 gallon tanks that is less than a full tank of fuel every year and that my friends is old, stale fuel no matter what you do to it. In short, keep your fuel fresh and you should not experience many problems with your carbs.

GaryL
 

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Welcome to The Forum! :D
 

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I just bought my first TW last week. 2020. Traded in a Harley V-Rod for it and not looking back!
Just a few more posts and only answers in this thread will get you able to post pictures and we are a rather visual group. Welcome to our forum and the 12 step program we live under. First upgrade, Step #1 in my opinion (IMO) buy a DID VX chain in size 428 and with 122 links and you will have an easy 10,000 miles of trouble free travel with very little adjusting and very little oil flung all over the rear. Respond here to all new posts to get you post count above the minimum to add pictures. LT is not that far from you and he knows where every donut shop is between you and him. :D

GaryL
 

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Doctors got me on a diet... :mad: I dream about them every night though!!! :p



Just a few more posts and only answers in this thread will get you able to post pictures and we are a rather visual group. Welcome to our forum and the 12 step program we live under. First upgrade, Step #1 in my opinion (IMO) buy a DID VX chain in size 428 and with 122 links and you will have an easy 10,000 miles of trouble free travel with very little adjusting and very little oil flung all over the rear. Respond here to all new posts to get you post count above the minimum to add pictures. LT is not that far from you and he knows where every donut shop is between you and him. :D

GaryL
 
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