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Discussion Starter #1
I have one of the new fangled batteries, a Ballistic. So the other day, I stopped the bike in camp and went to check on a friend who fell off his bike and got hurt. I left the key on, and the battery was drained completely. I had to push start it, then I rode it for a while. Still wouldn't crank. So I rode it for 45 minutes, and still won't crank. With the battery installed and engine and key off, it reads 9.9 volts. Running, it reads 10.8 volts. There are a lot of threads here on charging, but I am still confused. Is the battery low because of the low voltage on the charging system, or is the charging system limited by a toasted battery? Can you check the output of the charging system separate from the battery? Not sure how to do that. It is a 2009. Thanks for any help.
 

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You're sure to get lots of help on this one Swimmer. Initially, I would guess, the TW charging system is not robust enough to get a 'really dead' battery up to starting an engine in 45 minutes. When riding off-road, you are generally going slower than when on pavement. As well, the newer (yours) TW's are set-up to run with lights on all the time. My guess is; low speed, lights on = little charge. Lets see what the experts have to say. Gerry
 

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I'm no expert but 10.8v running is too low. It should be 13-14v running and 12v when off. I would remove the battery, fill it with distilled water (if it is that type of battery, not sure what a Ballistic is) and put it on a trickle charger over night. Clean all of the battery terminals, especially the ground, a lot of time the corrosion is in the wires themselves not just the terminal ends. Once the battery is properly charge put it back in the bike and check it. After that you should have a better idea if it is indeed a bad battery or the charging system. I'm going to take a WAG and predict a bad battery. But I would check everything first before buying a new one. We have a battery specialty shop in town and you can take a battery there and they hook it up to a tester and can tell you all about it in detail if you'd rather have an expert look at it. They usually don't charge for the diagnostic. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
 

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I have one of the new fangled batteries, a Ballistic. So the other day, I stopped the bike in camp and went to check on a friend who fell off his bike and got hurt. I left the key on, and the battery was drained completely. I had to push start it, then I rode it for a while. Still wouldn't crank. So I rode it for 45 minutes, and still won't crank. With the battery installed and engine and key off, it reads 9.9 volts. Running, it reads 10.8 volts. There are a lot of threads here on charging, but I am still confused. Is the battery low because of the low voltage on the charging system, or is the charging system limited by a toasted battery? Can you check the output of the charging system separate from the battery? Not sure how to do that. It is a 2009. Thanks for any help.


n2o2diver beat me to it. I would guess that with a 9.9v reading, that your battery is fully dead. Generally, anything less than 12.1 is considered dead. But if you can avail yourself of the sophisticated diagnistics, then you might be able to avoid buying a new one unnecessarily.
 

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What happens if I discharge my Ballistic Performance Components Battery?

.... If for some reason you discharge your Ballistic Performance Components Battery the best thing to do is to recharge it as soon as possible. You should not allow the battery to discharge below 9.0Volts, as this can damage the cells. If the battery is drained below 6.0Volts then the battery is considered to be discharged beyond its capacity and it should be discarded according to local land fill regulations.




From the Ballistic Battery website FAQ's. Looks like you came close.



They also say there's a 3 year warranty. Hope you don't need to see if it's true.



See charging instructions.



http://www.ballisticparts.com/tech/faq.php#2



They claim 45 minutes to recharge it at 14 volts, 2 amps.



A local shop that sells the Ballistic batteries has had to replace a couple of defective ones.



Jb
 

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See charging instructions.



http://www.ballisticparts.com/tech/faq.php#2



They claim 45 minutes to recharge it at 14 volts, 2 amps.



A local shop that sells the Ballistic batteries has had to replace a couple of defective ones.



Jb




Hey JB thanks for posting that. I didn't realize "Ballistic" was a type/brand of battery, didn't even occur to me. I thought he was going to shoot it or something.




This is why this Forum ROCKS! We all get to learn something.
 

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I'm not sure a trickle charger would bring that battery back from the brink of death overnight. I'm pretty sure mine wouldn't. As long as a couple days may be needed on a trickle charger, not sure.



So I've been studying solar a little and I learned something about 12 volt batteries. They're not really 12 volt -- closer to 14v. I know an automotive system is different, but in the deep cycle world, 12.2 volts is half discharged and that is the magical point beyond which they should no longer be discharged. Interstate recommends charging to 14.8 volts on some of their batteries. A bit off topic, but I found it interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
What happens if I discharge my Ballistic Performance Components Battery?

.... If for some reason you discharge your Ballistic Performance Components Battery the best thing to do is to recharge it as soon as possible. You should not allow the battery to discharge below 9.0Volts, as this can damage the cells. If the battery is drained below 6.0Volts then the battery is considered to be discharged beyond its capacity and it should be discarded according to local land fill regulations.




From the Ballistic Battery website FAQ's. Looks like you came close.



They also say there's a 3 year warranty. Hope you don't need to see it's true.



See charging instructions.



http://www.ballisticparts.com/tech/faq.php#2



They claim 45 minutes to recharge it at 14 volts, 2 amps.



A local shop that sells the Ballistic batteries has had to replace a couple of defective ones.



Jb
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Update: I did check their website and got those instructions, and also have contacted them regarding the problem. They are the ones that suggested I check my charging system and/or charge it off the bike. So I did charge it, and it was over 13 volts, but dropped back down to 10 when I tried to start the bike. So I guess the battery is dead and I will see if they warranty it. Expensive little bugger, and I mean little. You could fit it in a loose front pocket. They wanted to know the charging voltage, but it appears to be drawn down by the dead battery. My experience with solar panels and batteries, although the standard lead acid, was that the charging system (panels) will charge at the voltage the batteries are at. I just wasn't sure if it was the same thing on a bike with a lithium battery.
 

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I was in the battery business ancillary to my main business for many years. Your standard lead acid battery, still the main stay of the battery world has much to recommend it. The problem with what we would call exotico batteries, regardless of the technology, is it has specific charge / dischage guidlines typically more stringent than lead acid. Hit a lead acid with intermittent too high of a charge voltage, you will maybe just boil off water that can be replaced. Gelled lead/acid, mat batteries, exotic chemistry you likely will fry them.



There are places for exotic chemistry batteries, a TW200 is not the place. Motorcycle batteries in general do not seem to last a long time. Exotic chemistry batteries seem to last even less. rw
 

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...

There are places for exotic chemistry batteries, a TW200 is not the place. Motorcycle batteries in general do not seem to last a long time. Exotic chemistry batteries seem to last even less. rw
Have to disagree.... Respectfully.




My motorcycle batteries last 4 to 5 years with proper care. I'm on year 2 with the lithium Shorai battery in my TW. Hope to go many more years with this one.



Edit: I just noticed you are in Alaska. That might have something to do with battery life.




The new lithium chemistry, LiFePO4, claims to have much better cold starting power than traditional lead-acid batteries.



LiFePO4 batteries have the ability to build their own internal heat energy when a draw is put on the battery. This means that although if may be 0ºF (-18ºC) outside, the battery has the ability to raise its internal temperature to 58ºF (14ºC) in seconds with a 100amp draw. As the temperature rises inside the battery, internal resistance lowers and the battery performs just like it does when it is 60ºF (15ºC) outside. This means that the amount of available amperage does not change based on temperature.



Time will tell if the claims are valid.



Jb
 

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When riding off-road, you are generally going slower than when on pavement. As well, the newer (yours) TW's are set-up to run with lights on all the time. My guess is; low speed, lights on = little charge.


I was wondering about this too and was thinking that maybe a cut off switch for the headlight might be helpful for the days i hit the trail geocaching. which means, you drive a tenth of a mile, stop get off, look around, find something, then back on, drive a tenth mile, stop and get off, look around, find something, then back on and drive a tenth.... think you see the process.



with little rpm, little drive time, and lots of starts and stops the options are leave the bike running at each stop slowly drinking limited fuel or discharge the electrical and find myself without kickstarter in middle of desert.



each of the green boxes is a geocache hide, each one a tenth mile apart.

 

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That terrain looks familiar
If it's where I think it is I'll come get ya.



The post '01 charging system is 3 phase and does a better job at lower rpm than does the earlier single-phase system.



Still, I'd be very interested how well it holds up in that highly unusual situation with a button-only starter..
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Ballistic says they are going to warranty the battery, so while it may take a little while, at least I don't have to buy another one. Thanks everyone for yout help.
 

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Have to disagree.... Respectfully.




My motorcycle batteries last 4 to 5 years with proper care. I'm on year 2 with the lithium Shorai battery in my TW. Hope to go many more years with this one.



Edit: I just noticed you are in Alaska. That might have something to do with battery life.




The new lithium chemistry, LiFePO4, claims to have much better cold starting power than traditional lead-acid batteries.



LiFePO4 batteries have the ability to build their own internal heat energy when a draw is put on the battery. This means that although if may be 0ºF (-18ºC) outside, the battery has the ability to raise its internal temperature to 58ºF (14ºC) in seconds with a 100amp draw. As the temperature rises inside the battery, internal resistance lowers and the battery performs just like it does when it is 60ºF (15ºC) outside. This means that the amount of available amperage does not change based on temperature.



Time will tell if the claims are valid.



Jb






That is great to have had that experience. My last two motorcycle battery failures. Recently, I had picked up my TW at a shop I patronize, bike fired right up, . Stopped by a friends house enroute home. When I went out to start the bike the battery was dead. Fortunately my 94 TW does not have to have a battery to run, so I rode it home. My two year old battery was toast. Contrast that with my previous battery failure experience, I have a DR650, which a couple years ago I rode from anchorage to tucson az. I had spent the night in Boise, heading towards twinn falls, there was a big wreck that stopped traffic. I went to restart the bike, which unlike the TW is an alternator bike, it was dead. Some harley boys gave me a pull to jump start it as it has no kick start, but you need power to energise the alternator. The battery was 2 months old.



I called a tow truck to haul me into twinn falls and got an older motel room where I could bring the bike into the room.

I tore into the bike, and figured the battery was toast. Took a day to get a battery through a napa store and I was on my way. Like I said earlier, I was in a business where I sold a lot of batteries, I have a dynamic battery tester that puts an appropriate load on the battery and monitors the result. I would be thrilled to find a battery technology that is not sensitive to high charging voltage which most of these older bikes have. Perhaps it has arrived and I have not tried it yet. rw
 

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FYI....Shorai battery advises it is ok to use "Battery Tender" chargers on "their" batteries,unknown for Ballistic?.
 

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You guys are saying the 01 and newer bikes wont run without a battery? I have heard of that happening with modern engines that have a grip of computers and sensors. But a tw200??



Normally you can test your charging system by simply putting a tester on the battery leads with the bike running. Regardless if its attached to a battery.
 

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You guys are saying the 01 and newer bikes wont run without a battery? I have heard of that happening with modern engines that have a grip of computers and sensors. But a tw200??



Normally you can test your charging system by simply putting a tester on the battery leads with the bike running. Regardless if its attached to a battery.


My 2005 will definitely run without a battery - but the horn and turn signals are a bit weak.
 

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FYI....Shorai battery advises it is ok to use "Battery Tender" chargers on "their" batteries,unknown for Ballistic?.


The Ballistic batteries are the same chemistry as the Shorai, lithium iron phosphate. The Ballistic site says it's OK to use a low amperage motorcycle charger, that puts out no greater than 14v, and that does not have an anti-sulfation cycle.



jb
 
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