[Purple]

I bet a guy could sell the snot out of a custom built TW battery

Way too many variables – old stock cells, brands that out perform others (and the counterfeits), it’s been a minefield for as long as I can remember. Trouble starts when you get it right, how right on a scale of one to ten ? – and if you get it wrong, it brings a whole new meaning to “willy warmer”, and that’s if it doesn’t take out the house in the middle of the night – but wait, what about that chip half the size of a postage stamp, surely nothing can wrong with those

Great hobby to have, but I’d pass on the liability if I were you ……..

 

[MaddMaverick]

Research it well. These cells aren't toys. Just getting water in them will turn them into Roman candles hot enough to melt glass and steel.
Now that i think about it. Lithium ion on a dirt bike is probably a really really bad idea... Your genitals riding 3 inches from a potential grenade is rather unsettling. Get a cracked battery case and not know it, and drop the bike in a stream and it gets in that lithium your bike will be totalled. Just the cheesy ones they are selling would be enough to melt the seat and airbox off the bike and melt the rear tire, probably melt the carb some too

 

[MaddMaverick]

The one i was hastily designing out of those 30amp Sonys to get an idea of cost would melt the swingarm off. And possibly the back of the engine cases.

 

[MountainMan75]

1. Do you always ride in a warm climate?
2. Is weight really a major factor?
If the answer to those are truthfully no... The Yuasa stock AGM is best in my experience. Over winters or periods of not riding it, just make sure to level the battery (physically), and use a battery tender. Preferably removing the battery from the bike and keeping it in a warmer environment and topping it off about once a month. I have never found an advantage over AGM or flooded cells with Lithium Iron Phosphate unless weight is your biggest concern. The chemistry of lithium cells will never match the ability of sulfuric acid against lead plates to pack a punch when you are in the worst conditions, unless you are pushing the bike to its limits and need to reduce about 4 pounds. At the end of the day, they still charge at the same rate, but do not produce the same results in Ah, and especially CCA. Sulfuric acid against lead always wins in my experience, except when it comes to weight.

 

[Raimiewmg]

Yuasa site only shows the standard lead acid battery, what is the part number for the Agm type ? Thanks everyone

 

[MountainMan75]

Yuasa site only shows the standard lead acid battery, what is the part number for the Agm type ? Thanks everyone

Yuasa YB7C-A... as a side note, the newer ones come in a "Sulfate Stop" version (which has a white "proprietary" powder in them). I've found the best way when you give them the initial charge to help with longevity is to fill the cells to the correct level, with their provided acid packs, but order small extra container of battery acid 'just in case'. (This also allows you to bring a battery back up to snuff later on having this on hand as well as some distilled water) Fill it, and give a few front to back gentle shakes once every half hour to let the acid, "Sulfate Stop", and the reaction of between them with the lead plates level out. Walk away for a day, and you may find one or two cells need a little more acid to get the level correct using a light behind the battery to highlight the levels in each of the six cells. Take your time with this and the battery will last much longer. Top them all off again, and let it sit another day as the electrons between the sulfuric acid and the plates are transferring. After everything looks level, do your initial charge with a battery tender or other device that has the ability to charge a new battery with sensing abilities to know when it needs to switch to a float charge (level of voltage needed just to keep it good without overcharging).

(edit... I remember why I think of this as an AGM, it is inherently a flooded cell, but they added extra plates per cell and odd separators and whatever is in the "sulfate stop"). IMO... the heat off this bike is high compared to others and the flooded cell is better than an AGM which would just vent and dry out prematurely.) This one gives
you time to see if cells are running low and also still give you better CCA.

 

[TWBigBlake]

Thanks for the feedback though it doesn't really address my question. All the batteries recommended in this thread are pretty low in Amp Hours, the Earth X is 4AH and the Scorpion is 5.5. My real question is, if a small battery is 4 or 5 amp hours, can't I make use of that extra battery box space for more? What I want is to cram the most possible amp hours out of that space that I can get.

Not having a kick starter makes me a little nervous about being stuck in the middle of nowhere with a dead battery. Extra battery capacity means more time to run the starter while trying to troubleshoot a broken bike

You could spend $69 on the battery scooter mentioned... or pony up and forget all your worries and troubles...

Then batteries become a lot less scary when problems come up.

 

[snoble029]

Kickstarter's a little out of my budget for now unfortunately. I decided to go with the 6AH one from Walmart I posted in the thread earlier for now since it was only $35, it should show up tomorrow. Long term, I am going to install an ammo can saddlebag where I might put a spare battery and wire it in parallel for extra capacity. If I wanted to do something stupid with lithium cells I would put it in the ammo can so I won't be castrated if something goes wrong. I also am going to install a solar battery tender for even more redundancy

 

[Ken]

Yuasa YB7C-A... as a side note, the newer ones come in a "Sulfate Stop" version (which has a white "proprietary" powder in them). I've found the best way when you give them the initial charge to help with longevity is to fill the cells to the correct level, with their provided acid packs, but order small extra container of battery acid 'just in case'. (This also allows you to bring a battery back up to snuff later on having this on hand as well as some distilled water) Fill it, and give a few front to back gentle shakes once every half hour to let the acid, "Sulfate Stop", and the reaction of between them with the lead plates level out. Walk away for a day, and you may find one or two cells need a little more acid to get the level correct using a light behind the battery to highlight the levels in each of the six cells. Take your time with this and the battery will last much longer. Top them all off again, and let it sit another day as the electrons between the sulfuric acid and the plates are transferring. After everything looks level, do your initial charge with a battery tender or other device that has the ability to charge a new battery with sensing abilities to know when it needs to switch to a float charge (level of voltage needed just to keep it good without overcharging).

(edit... I remember why I think of this as an AGM, it is inherently a flooded cell, but they added extra plates per cell and odd separators and whatever is in the "sulfate stop"). IMO... the heat off this bike is high compared to others and the flooded cell is better than an AGM which would just vent and dry out prematurely.) This one gives
you time to see if cells are running low and also still give you better CCA.

I never had any luck with the Yuasa stock battery. They would last about 6 months of electric starter use and then I had to kickstart the bike until I decided to buy another one that would last about 6 months. The Scorpian AGM I have is already several years old and starts every time with the electric starter. The AGM battery I have is rated lower for some reason but packs more punch. I only have to kickstart my bike now just because I can. Maybe the climate between areas is different on the batteries. Texas has a lot of high heat days that maybe the Yuasa can't hold up to. Use whatever battery is best for your bike.

 

[NorthernSpy]

Interesting thread. I have/had a stock battery since new. It stopped functioning as a start battery recently, and acts more as a n electron reservoir currently. My kickstarter gets regular use for the first start of the day. So I too would like to find a new battery, at a reasonable price. I'm in Canada, less options. Mostly Amazon, which is hit and miss with price and inventory.

Anyone try the "Flypower" brand? FLY5L-BS looks to fit.

FLY5L-BS 12V CCA 180A 36Wh LiFePO4 Motorcycle Engine Start Battery with BMS Smart Battery 12V Lithium Iron Phosphate Scooter Batteries For Yamaha Haojue Suzuki Harley BMW Kawasaki 4.5x2.8x4.1inch, Batteries - Amazon Canada

FLY5L-BS 12V CCA 180A 36Wh LiFePO4 Motorcycle Engine Start Battery with BMS Smart Battery 12V Lithium Iron Phosphate Scooter Batteries For Yamaha Haojue Suzuki Harley BMW Kawasaki 4.5x2.8x4.1inch in Batteries.

www.amazon.ca

One of the things not yet discussed, that if you use the bike as many of us do (but not envisioned by Yamaha engineers) by frequently tossing it off of the trail and into the bush or off small cliffs, it is more desirable to keep the electrolyte in the battery. This is where an AGM or Li-ion battery has an advantage. Something to consider if you ride (or rather, crash) like I do.

 

[Aimless]

I need to buy a new battery for my TW. I have looked on existing posts, everyone seems to recommend the AGM YTZ7S which requires shims to fit in the battery box. To me that seems like a waste of space. I would rather have a bigger battery if that means more amp hours.

What's the highest possible amp hour battery, at least 120CCA, I can fit in the battery box? I'd like to keep it around 50-75 bucks if possible though can go higher if needed.

My TW is kind of a Frankenbike though I believe the frame and battery box are from '87.

 

[Aimless]

To be honest, I use the Neptune YTZ7S-BS AGM sealed batteries for my TW and DR650. $22.00 -$30.00 a pop.

I am not going to spend $130+ dollars on a battery that will die out in about 1-2 years. Been there done that already.

But YMMV depending on your location and riding style.

 

[MountainMan75]

Not sure why, but I just never have much luck with a 'maintenance free' AGM lasting more than a couple years at best and many times it's only 1 year even bringing them into the basement over the winter and using the battery tender on them. I'm not even sure what to call what the YB7C-A even though it is still built like a conventional battery. If you look down inside of one before you put the acid in, the new ones have separators that look like heavier glass matting you'd see in an AGM, and they have more plates per cell than the original I pulled out of it, plus the 'sulfate stop' powder stuff. It's held up for years now, no problem while I keep replacing the AGM's in my other bikes. One that really leaves me cursin the battery gods is the ETX16L in my Bombardier that dies every year even after it tests like a good battery. That one is a 325CCA boat anchor and it still goes belly up regardless of brand every year and it always seems to happen when I park it long enough outside to go well below freezing the first time. Install a new one and it lasts until the next season.

 

[nihil]

Are you guys buying the "big name" AGM or the cheapest thing on fleabay? The Oddysey in my TW is 3+ years without a hitch, and I've got three Optimas that are going strong up to 10+ years after purchase despite being somewhat neglected (not kept on a trickle charger as often as they should be, used in deep cycle applications where they're the red top non-deep type, project cars that don't get driven much, etc...). I don't bring them inside over the winter, they sit out in the garage bolted into whatever car/robot/truck/improvised jump box I used them in last.

The only up-side to flooded cells is that when they build up dendrites between the plates after sitting, you can give them a good flat whack on a concrete floor to shake it loose and regain some lost capacity (or even revive a mostly dead battery if you sacrificed the right goat).

 

[Willys714]

I had a big name battery nearly go Chernobyl under my seat. It worked great for a couple of years and then started acting wonky and when I went to check connections found the casing bulging. I cut it open and it was worse inside.

 

[nihil]

I had a big name battery nearly go Chernobyl under my seat. It worked great for a couple of years and then started acting wonky and when I went to check connections found the casing bulging. I cut it open and it was worse inside.

Yeah, swollen/puffed up liths are par for the course, at least until some reputable cell suppliers are established and get their production(QC) issues sorted to a reliable degree. But I can't even remember the last reputable name automotive/powersport AGM I've had an issue with that wasn't 100% my fault. Worst ones I've had were APC branded AGM in some UPS equipment, and they decided to swell up after I think 5 years or so.

 

[MountainMan75]

Just from my experience in telecom... We have a ton of equipment all over the place that uses AGM as backup power in remote location equipment in case commercial power fails and what we've learned is that if these batteries fall below about 20 degrees for an extended period of time, they absolutely will fail (just a question of when). Even switching up to higher brand types that would put brands like Optima to shame in their design (with price tags to match). Most of these systems at this point have been converted to Lithium ion (not lithium iron phosphate), but we still have to keep warming pads under both types of batteries to keep them from failing once commercial power fails and they need to kick in and the Li-ions had to have special equipment to just let it fail after it reached a certain discharge point in which case we better already be out there with small generators on site to bring things back up. My arguments on going old school and using deep cycle flooded cells have fallen on deaf ears. "To the future and beyond!"... or else shutup, I guess.

 

[Ski Pro 3]

I installed a Battery Tender BTL-14A240C It is not recommended by BT for the TW200. It will, however, fit. It's a tight fit, but it will shoe-horn in. And it is rated at 14amps. Now that's plenty of juice. I bought mine in November of 2014 and it's still going strong. I've never needed to charge it other than what the TW200 generates on it's own to keep the battery charged. However, BT makes a wall wart battery charger specific for this battery.
Hope this helps.
Oh, and don't bitch about the price. You'll spend more than this replacing anything else every couple seasons. Like I said, mine is almost 7 years old and works as good as the day I bought it. Runs my grip heaters fine! Ha!

 

[Ken]

Just from my experience in telecom... We have a ton of equipment all over the place that uses AGM as backup power in remote location equipment in case commercial power fails and what we've learned is that if these batteries fall below about 20 degrees for an extended period of time, they absolutely will fail (just a question of when). Even switching up to higher brand types that would put brands like Optima to shame in their design (with price tags to match). Most of these systems at this point have been converted to Lithium ion (not lithium iron phosphate), but we still have to keep warming pads under both types of batteries to keep them from failing once commercial power fails and they need to kick in and the Li-ions had to have special equipment to just let it fail after it reached a certain discharge point in which case we better already be out there with small generators on site to bring things back up. My arguments on going old school and using deep cycle flooded cells have fallen on deaf ears. "To the future and beyond!"... or else shutup, I guess.

I think you make a good point on that application especially. Deep cycle flooded cells would probably be their best bet.

 

[NorthernSpy]

Interesting thread. I have/had a stock battery since new. It stopped functioning as a start battery recently, and acts more as a n electron reservoir currently. My kickstarter gets regular use for the first start of the day. So I too would like to find a new battery, at a reasonable price. I'm in Canada, less options. Mostly Amazon, which is hit and miss with price and inventory.

Anyone try the "Flypower" brand? FLY5L-BS looks to fit.

FLY5L-BS 12V CCA 180A 36Wh LiFePO4 Motorcycle Engine Start Battery with BMS Smart Battery 12V Lithium Iron Phosphate Scooter Batteries For Yamaha Haojue Suzuki Harley BMW Kawasaki 4.5x2.8x4.1inch, Batteries - Amazon Canada

FLY5L-BS 12V CCA 180A 36Wh LiFePO4 Motorcycle Engine Start Battery with BMS Smart Battery 12V Lithium Iron Phosphate Scooter Batteries For Yamaha Haojue Suzuki Harley BMW Kawasaki 4.5x2.8x4.1inch in Batteries.

www.amazon.ca

One of the things not yet discussed, that if you use the bike as many of us do (but not envisioned by Yamaha engineers) by frequently tossing it off of the trail and into the bush or off small cliffs, it is more desirable to keep the electrolyte in the battery. This is where an AGM or Li-ion battery has an advantage. Something to consider if you ride (or rather, crash) like I do.

Well. I bought one. On the slow boat from you know where... I will endeavor to post up when I receive it. $89 CAD is a pretty low price for LiFePO4.