[jgaff]

The first step is admitting it. I am an idiot. I left the bike - a 2010 TW200 - out all winter. In New England. This winter. It was buried almost completely at one point.



I dug it out and started it once over the winter. Once the snow was finally gone I tried starting it. It turned over but did not start.



So far I have:

- changed spark plug and checked for spark. It has spark

- checked for gas flow from tank to carb and from carb drain. Gas flowed.

- drained old gas from tank and carb and filled with new gas

- checked airbox. No mice.

- charged battery. Still didn't help. Turns over but never catches.

- replaced battery with new charged, sealed AGM Yuasa. Still turns, still doesn't start.

- did the lazy mans carb clean.



Now this is where it got interesting. To me at least. Before I decided to clean the carb I poured a some gas into the cap from a quart of oil and poured that into the cylinder. Plug back in, hit starter and she's running. Throttle a little, it runs then dies. Makes me think the gas was flowing to the carb but not to the cylinder. SO, lazy mans carb clean. Once it was all back together I tried and it started up again! Ran a few seconds then died. I'm guessing the cleaning solvent I used was what was burning, or enough gas got in at first then got clogged.



This all sounds like a dirty carb to me. Except it sounds lie the starter is dragging when the starter button is released. Would it be possible for the starter to stay engaged and cause the engine to stall, then disengage?



Any ideas would be appreciated. I'd like to ride before April 1 ( cuz if you aren't on the road by 4/1 you're a pussy ).



THX



JG

 

[jbfla]

... Makes me think the gas was flowing to the carb but not to the cylinder. ...

I agree. You have spark, air, and fuel... when you pour it in.



It may be time to do more than the lazy carb cleaning. The lazy cleaning should clean the tiny holes in the main and pilot jets, but may not clean the interconnecting passageways.



Time to take a dip:



Several different ways:



The Yamalube product (from your Yamaha dealer):

The Pinesol bath :

or an ultrasonic cleaner with a cap of Dawn dish washing detergent:

jb

 

[Bagger]

Maybe the bike just wants to see you kick yourself int he ass for leaving out all winter.....

Try that and see what happens.



Bag

 

[jgaff]

Done that already.

Maybe the bike just wants to see you kick yourself int he ass for leaving out all winter.....

Try that and see what happens.



Bag

 

[mrlmd]

Stupid question, but here goes anyway - you are using the choke right, or did you forget that?

 

[jbfla]

... - you are using the choke right, or did you forget that?

Good point, mrlmd. The choke on the Teikei carb isn't like a traditional butterfly choke.



It opens an additional fuel passage to the engine. So even if the pilot and main jet are clogged, fuel is still supplied to the engine.



jb

 

[jgaff]

Yah, I've tried all positions of the choke knob - in, half way out, fully out. It catches briefly when the choke knob is fully out. I'm going to take the carb off and clean it out over the weekend.



THX



JG

Good point, mrlmd. The choke on the Teikei carb isn't like a traditional butterfly choke.



It opens an additional fuel passage to the engine. So even if the pilot and main jet are clogged, fuel is still supplied to the engine.



jb

 

[Bagger]

Hey, I applaude you for taking some ribbing in good form, I hate it when I've done something like that.

It really seems to me that it's time to tear into that carb and get her all polished up.

I wish you success!



Bag

 

[jgaff]

No worries. If you're an idiot, you're an idiot. No use denying it. I was an idiot.



I took off and cleaned out the carb, blew out all the jets and passageways. I got it all buttoned up and started it.



It will run but only with the choke fully out. Any other position it stalls. It will also stall when given any amount of throttle. I played with the idle screw. It stalls when raising the idle, runs when it it lowered.



Do I need to clean the carb AGAIN?!? It is possible I reassembled and missed something but all seemed to go together. No parts left out. Tiny spring above the main jet in place.



I may have put the white basket ( part # "5LB-14936-00, SEAT, SPRING" on the fiche page B10 ) above the spring on upside down. The picture has it dome up, rim down. I have it wit the dome down, the rim up. Is this correct? Mine also has teeth on it that aren't shown in the parts drawing.

Hey, I applaude you for taking some ribbing in good form, I hate it when I've done something like that.

It really seems to me that it's time to tear into that carb and get her all polished up.

I wish you success!



Bag

 

[qwerty]

No worries. If you're an idiot, you're an idiot. No use denying it. I was an idiot.



I took off and cleaned out the carb, blew out all the jets and passageways. I got it all buttoned up and started it.



It will run but only with the choke fully out. Any other position it stalls. It will also stall when given any amount of throttle. I played with the idle screw. It stalls when raising the idle, runs when it it lowered.



Do I need to clean the carb AGAIN?!? It is possible I reassembled and missed something but all seemed to go together. No parts left out. Tiny spring above the main jet in place.



I may have put the white basket ( part # "5LB-14936-00, SEAT, SPRING" on the fiche page B10 ) above the spring on upside down. The picture has it dome up, rim down. I have it wit the dome down, the rim up. Is this correct? Mine also has teeth on it that aren't shown in the parts drawing.

First, put the crab together right. Then let us know. While you have it apart this time verify every passage is clear. Some are very small and easy to miss.

 

[uktw125]

No worries. If you're an idiot, you're an idiot. No use denying it. I was an idiot.



I took off and cleaned out the carb, blew out all the jets and passageways. I got it all buttoned up and started it.



It will run but only with the choke fully out. Any other position it stalls. It will also stall when given any amount of throttle. I played with the idle screw. It stalls when raising the idle, runs when it it lowered.



Do I need to clean the carb AGAIN?!? It is possible I reassembled and missed something but all seemed to go together. No parts left out. Tiny spring above the main jet in place.



I may have put the white basket ( part # "5LB-14936-00, SEAT, SPRING" on the fiche page B10 ) above the spring on upside down. The picture has it dome up, rim down. I have it wit the dome down, the rim up. Is this correct? Mine also has teeth on it that aren't shown in the parts drawing.

You need to assemble exactly as the parts diagram in your link. White plastic basket dome up, little tiny spring inside that, and then the needle.

It,s a bit tricky to do but the white plastic basket should hold it all in place when the big spring is in place and under a bit of compression.



Edit: Sorry Qwerty we must have been typing at the same time.

 

[kj7687]

Perhaps your float bowl in the carb is malfunctioning. It seems that it could be stuck mostly-closed, thereby allowing gas to drain in too slowly. This could explain why it will run for a few seconds and then die out.

 

[jbfla]

...

I may have put the white basket ( part # "5LB-14936-00, SEAT, SPRING" on the fiche page B10 ) above the spring on upside down. The picture has it dome up, rim down. I have it wit the dome down, the rim up. Is this correct? Mine also has teeth on it that aren't shown in the parts drawing.

jb

 

[jbfla]

...

It will run but only with the choke fully out. Any other position it stalls. It will also stall when given any amount of throttle. I played with the idle screw. It stalls when raising the idle, runs when it it lowered....

My guess is that the pilot jet, and/or pilot jet passageways are still clogged (with fuel needle parts properly installed).



After the bike is warmed up (with the choke on), it should continue to idle (choke off/pushed in) with only the fuel from the pilot jet port (and the idle screw properly set).



Make sure the pilot screw, spring, washer, and o-ring are installed properly (pilot screw about 2 1/2 turns out).

...and that the pilot jet air and fuel ports are clear.

jb

 

[jgaff]

Thanks for all the tips. I'll fix the upside down part, double check the pilot screw and let you know.

My guess is that the pilot jet, and/or pilot jet passageways are still clogged (with fuel needle parts properly installed).



After the bike is warmed up (with the choke on), it should continue to idle (choke off/pushed in) with only the fuel from the pilot jet port (and the idle screw properly set).



Make sure the pilot screw, spring, washer, and o-ring are installed properly (pilot screw about 2 1/2 turns out).

...and that the pilot jet air and fuel ports are clear.

jb

 

[jgaff]

Sunday update:



I took the carb off and reversed the upside down part, AND installed the main spring in the carb slide, which I had forgot. I took out the idle jet and cleaned it. I had not done that previously. I re-cleaned everything.



Funny, none of this helped. I guess the main spring is superfluous.

It will only start and run with the choke fully out. It will not start otherwise. It stalls at the smallest touch of the throttle. I adjusted the idle screw while it was running. When trying to increase the idle, it dies after less than 1/8 turn. Merely touching the throttle cable pulley causes it to stall.



It idles, at least at full choke, so I am getting gas-spark-air-compression. The tiniest increase in revs and it stalls.



What could happen to cause this? What could go wrong with the bike sitting out all winter?



THX for all the tips so far.



JG

 

[uktw125]

I don't want to insult you here so tell me to shut up if I am. But I think you must be making a simple error in reassembling your carb, or you are confusing the tick over (idle) screw with the mixture screw.

Maybe time to ask for professional help. Take the carb to the shop and ask them to clean and reassemble it for you. At least you know it is correct, thats if you have a reputable shop near you. Or maybe another Tdubber.

 

[jgaff]

No insult taken. I know what I know and I am always find out that what I know gets smaller and smaller every day.



I might have mixed up the terms but I know what parts are what. Idle screw is the one outside on the left. Air mix is the one you need to pull the metal plug off so you can get at it. I'll pretty sure it's together right this time. Pretty sure...



I would like to get this fixed myself. Basically the cost of a dealer fix and the fact that I won't know any more than when I started. If I need to finally go to the shop, I am luck that I have a good one close by.



THX!



JG

I don't want to insult you here so tell me to shut up if I am. But I think you must be making a simple error in reassembling your carb, or you are confusing the tick over (idle) screw with the mixture screw.

Maybe time to ask for professional help. Take the carb to the shop and ask them to clean and reassemble it for you. At least you know it is correct, thats if you have a reputable shop near you. Or maybe another Tdubber.

 

[qwerty]

Usually an engine that just dies when throttled from idle is too lean. I'd suspect something in the carb is plugged up or there is a vacuum leak.

 

[jbfla]

... I'd suspect something in the carb is plugged up or there is a vacuum leak.

Exactly... If it runs with full choke/enricher but not when pushed in, there is no fuel coming through the pilot and main jets.



My bike did exactly the same thing as yours last year. A complete and thorough carb disassembly and cleaning fixed it.



When you have the carb out, stick your finger in the intake and manually raise the piston to make sure it moves freely and doesn't stick.

Also, check to make sure the main nozzle/needle jet is in place. A missing main nozzle will cause similar problems.

These photos may help:



http://tw200forum.com/index.php?/topic/937-tk-carb-photos-and-parts-identification/



jb