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Bike won't start because I am an idiot. left the bike - a

14K views 50 replies 19 participants last post by  Peterb 
#1 ·
The first step is admitting it. I am an idiot. I left the bike - a 2010 TW200 - out all winter. In New England. This winter. It was buried almost completely at one point.



I dug it out and started it once over the winter. Once the snow was finally gone I tried starting it. It turned over but did not start.



So far I have:

- changed spark plug and checked for spark. It has spark

- checked for gas flow from tank to carb and from carb drain. Gas flowed.

- drained old gas from tank and carb and filled with new gas

- checked airbox. No mice.

- charged battery. Still didn't help. Turns over but never catches.

- replaced battery with new charged, sealed AGM Yuasa. Still turns, still doesn't start.

- did the lazy mans carb clean.



Now this is where it got interesting. To me at least. Before I decided to clean the carb I poured a some gas into the cap from a quart of oil and poured that into the cylinder. Plug back in, hit starter and she's running. Throttle a little, it runs then dies. Makes me think the gas was flowing to the carb but not to the cylinder. SO, lazy mans carb clean. Once it was all back together I tried and it started up again! Ran a few seconds then died. I'm guessing the cleaning solvent I used was what was burning, or enough gas got in at first then got clogged.



This all sounds like a dirty carb to me. Except it sounds lie the starter is dragging when the starter button is released. Would it be possible for the starter to stay engaged and cause the engine to stall, then disengage?



Any ideas would be appreciated. I'd like to ride before April 1 ( cuz if you aren't on the road by 4/1 you're a pussy ).



THX



JG
 
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#2 ·
... Makes me think the gas was flowing to the carb but not to the cylinder. ...
I agree. You have spark, air, and fuel... when you pour it in.



It may be time to do more than the lazy carb cleaning. The lazy cleaning should clean the tiny holes in the main and pilot jets, but may not clean the interconnecting passageways.



Time to take a dip:



Several different ways:



The Yamalube product (from your Yamaha dealer):









The Pinesol bath :







or an ultrasonic cleaner with a cap of Dawn dish washing detergent:







jb
 
#3 ·
Maybe the bike just wants to see you kick yourself int he ass for leaving out all winter.....




Try that and see what happens.



Bag
 
#6 ·
... - you are using the choke right, or did you forget that?
Good point, mrlmd. The choke on the Teikei carb isn't like a traditional butterfly choke.



It opens an additional fuel passage to the engine. So even if the pilot and main jet are clogged, fuel is still supplied to the engine.



jb
 
#8 ·
Hey, I applaude you for taking some ribbing in good form, I hate it when I've done something like that.

It really seems to me that it's time to tear into that carb and get her all polished up.

I wish you success!



Bag
 
#9 ·
No worries. If you're an idiot, you're an idiot. No use denying it. I was an idiot.



I took off and cleaned out the carb, blew out all the jets and passageways. I got it all buttoned up and started it.



It will run but only with the choke fully out. Any other position it stalls. It will also stall when given any amount of throttle. I played with the idle screw. It stalls when raising the idle, runs when it it lowered.



Do I need to clean the carb AGAIN?!? It is possible I reassembled and missed something but all seemed to go together. No parts left out. Tiny spring above the main jet in place.



I may have put the white basket ( part # "5LB-14936-00, SEAT, SPRING" on the fiche page B10 ) above the spring on upside down. The picture has it dome up, rim down. I have it wit the dome down, the rim up. Is this correct? Mine also has teeth on it that aren't shown in the parts drawing.
 
#12 ·
Perhaps your float bowl in the carb is malfunctioning. It seems that it could be stuck mostly-closed, thereby allowing gas to drain in too slowly. This could explain why it will run for a few seconds and then die out.
 
#16 ·
Sunday update:



I took the carb off and reversed the upside down part, AND installed the main spring in the carb slide, which I had forgot. I took out the idle jet and cleaned it. I had not done that previously. I re-cleaned everything.



Funny, none of this helped. I guess the main spring is superfluous.




It will only start and run with the choke fully out. It will not start otherwise. It stalls at the smallest touch of the throttle. I adjusted the idle screw while it was running. When trying to increase the idle, it dies after less than 1/8 turn. Merely touching the throttle cable pulley causes it to stall.



It idles, at least at full choke, so I am getting gas-spark-air-compression. The tiniest increase in revs and it stalls.



What could happen to cause this? What could go wrong with the bike sitting out all winter?



THX for all the tips so far.



JG
 
#17 ·
I don't want to insult you here so tell me to shut up if I am. But I think you must be making a simple error in reassembling your carb, or you are confusing the tick over (idle) screw with the mixture screw.

Maybe time to ask for professional help. Take the carb to the shop and ask them to clean and reassemble it for you. At least you know it is correct, thats if you have a reputable shop near you. Or maybe another Tdubber.
 
#18 ·
No insult taken. I know what I know and I am always find out that what I know gets smaller and smaller every day.



I might have mixed up the terms but I know what parts are what. Idle screw is the one outside on the left. Air mix is the one you need to pull the metal plug off so you can get at it. I'll pretty sure it's together right this time. Pretty sure...



I would like to get this fixed myself. Basically the cost of a dealer fix and the fact that I won't know any more than when I started. If I need to finally go to the shop, I am luck that I have a good one close by.



THX!



JG
 
#20 ·
... I'd suspect something in the carb is plugged up or there is a vacuum leak.
Exactly... If it runs with full choke/enricher but not when pushed in, there is no fuel coming through the pilot and main jets.



My bike did exactly the same thing as yours last year. A complete and thorough carb disassembly and cleaning fixed it.



When you have the carb out, stick your finger in the intake and manually raise the piston to make sure it moves freely and doesn't stick.







Also, check to make sure the main nozzle/needle jet is in place. A missing main nozzle will cause similar problems.







These photos may help:



http://tw200forum.com/index.php?/topic/937-tk-carb-photos-and-parts-identification/



jb
 
#21 ·
Now would be a good time to remove the plug on the air/fuel mixture screw if you haven't already. it's in front of the float bowl. it's possible that there is crap in the idle passage. make sure you blow out all the passages when cleaning. good luck
 
#22 ·
Yah, got in there, cleaned it out. No change.



The suggestion to take it to the dealer was made. Can't do that. I called and the service guy quoted $270.00 for a carb cleaning and a gas tank flush. I said I don't need a tank flush. He said he always does a flush with a carb clean. *I* drained the tank and refilled it with good gas. Its a Clarke tank and I can see in the large filler hole that the bottom of the tank is clean, no sediment.



Plus, service guy said he is booked through till mid May.



Sooo, here I am. I've asked the questions, covered the basics, left the parts out, put the parts in, and got suggestions. What am I missing? I have not been under the coaster circuit on the carb. Would this affect idle? A vacuum leak was proposed. Where can I check for that? Is there a procedure on the forum?



RE:"When you have the carb out, stick your finger in the intake and manually raise the piston to make sure it moves freely and doesn't stick." Did that, moves freely.



I am going to order a rebuild kit and some of the suggested Yamalube cleaner and try from the start again this weekend.



JG
 
#23 ·
JG,



It seems you have gone the extra mile in trying to track down your problem.



As far as I know, there is not a carb rebuild kit. You have to order the individual parts.



I sent you a PM.



jb
 
#26 ·
It looks like the "choke" circuit by-passes the bowl and feeds fuel directly to the venturi from the fuel line. The bike runs (kinda) with the choke out but dies when it's pushed in.....




Is the level of fuel in the bowl high enough to reach the jets??? Could it be a clog between the fuel line and bowl? Or mis-adjusted floats?


 
#28 ·
...Is the level of fuel in the bowl high enough to reach the jets??? Could it be a clog between the fuel line and bowl? Or mis-adjusted floats?
The fuel pickup for the choke/enricher circuit is higher in the bowl than the main jet. If the choke circuit is getting fuel, then there is fuel around the main jet.



jb
 
#27 ·
A vacuum in the carb could be caused by a broken, hardened, or missing o-ring, gasket, or diagphram, a cracked or broken casting, a poorly fitted or missing piece of brass, the hose hooked up to the wrong nipple, and split or chafed hose, or worn pivot points. Vacuum could also leak between where the carb meets the boot, if the boot is holed or cracked, between the boot and carb joint, broken or hardened o-ring between the carb joint and head, chafed or holed resonator hose, etc. Fact is, there are a plethora of parts that could leak vacuum and cause a lean run condition.
 
#29 ·
All good possibilities. But this is a 2010 TW. It seems unlikely there are worn carb parts.



My bet is still on clogged passageways... but I've been wrong before...




JG has purchased a dipping basket and cleaning solution.... will await the results.



jb
 
#30 ·
i see lot of good sugestens in these thred too look for, they is all asuming thet they is feul at the carberatar.i sugest ferst too verifie thet you petcocks is functen proper,and to allow feul to pass from tank to carberatar.open you bowl drain too see it should drain out for you.



weth hand over carberater openings turns the moter over too see if you hand get wet for sucking feul.these tell you if it sucking feul becos that wat a carberatar suppose too do.if you not know what you doeing it hard two tell wat going on .these cant be much going on becos it a new bike.



fontintown firmarshel,

tenny
 
#32 ·
Gas is getting in the cylinder. I know this because the bike will run when the choke is pulled out fully. Gas flows out of the petcock when disconnected from the carb, and from the float bowl drain hose when the drain is opened.



It seem gas is not getting in through the idle/main/other jets.



THX



JG
 
#31 ·
The Saga Continues...



I took the carb apart and soaked it overnight in a dip tank. I removed all the rubber parts, jets, springs, etc and soaked the metal ones with the carb. The others I soaked in a mild soap. I rinsed it all off and am letting it dry while I wait for parts - new bowl gasket, air screw set, etc - and a can of air to blow everything out.



I did unfortunately lose the plastic spacer on the needle and strip one of the screw holding the butterfly on. The space I can order. The butterfly screw is not shown on any parts diagram I can find. The part might be called something else, not a butterfly, but that's what I'm calling it. It is the round brass part at the cylinder end of the carb, inside on a shaft connected to the throttle cable pulley ( which also isn't in my parts catalog! ).



I am waiting for my parts order from boats.net. Has anyone else dealt with them? The order seems to be taking a looong time. I am also waiting for a reply from their customer service. Any other recommended parts suppliers that aren't my local Yamaha dealer?



THX



JG
 
#34 ·
Take your remaining screw to a hobby shop and match it up. Hobby shops tend to have lots of small metric hardware.



You can soak a carb body until the cows come home, but carb cleaner will not remove some types of crud. Take a small copper wire and push it through every passageway in the carb until you find the one that is stopped up.
 
#35 ·
... what Qwerty said. Find an alternate source for the screw. Use a guitar string to pass through every opening ($1.00 at a music store), squirt with carb cleaner, then use air to blow out each passageway.



I call that butterfly thing the throttle plate... but that might not be correct either.



My offer still stands if you come to a dead end.



jb



(I have limited internet access here in the mountains so it might take a day or two to answer a pm.
 
#36 ·
What all the above said is great. What you have is water and debris in the fuel system. I addition to all the carb cleaning, you should drain the fuel tank. Remove the petcock and slosh some alchohol around in the tank and drain it out before putting the petcock back on. When the fuel system is clean from tank to engine, put in a new spark plug and start the bike. The old plug may have corrosion issues. BTW change the engine oil and clean the filters too.



Phelonius
 
#37 ·
Most of this stuff has been done, at least once - Tank has been drained and cleaned and had a gas additive added, one to 'winterize', i.e. get rid of the moisture. Plug has been changed and new one inspected - not fouled. Remember, the bike does run when fully choked and it runs well, idles smooth. I'd figure if water was in the gas it wouldn't run that great at all. It's a Clarke tank, neutral color, i.e. no color. I see no sediment in it either through the sides or through the very large filler hole. The tank is clean. I'll change the oil once I can get the bike warmed up! And I'll pull a string off the Martin that I never learned to play and put it to use.



To jbfla - I hope I don't have to take you up on your offer. I would be bummed to put on a different carb and find out it is some other problem. I've put too much - you've all put too much - time into this for it to NOT be the carb.




THX!



JG
 
#39 ·
If you put the main nozzle in upside down it will just dump gas in the carb when you hit the throttle. I learned this after a few Budweisers and reassembling the carb. I tore mine apart the next day reassembled it wrong again messed with the idle and wasted time cleaning the plug several times. I had no manual so I just kept taking it down and reassembling wrong. Printed a copy of the carb out of the online manual and figured it out immediately. Good luck and I hope this helps, I just hope you don't have it too out of whack now to get it set easily. I had mine turned out almost all the way had to bottom it back out and start frome scratch.
 
#43 ·
JGAFF,

I have the same problem with my 2005 that i stored indoors with gas in it for a year while I played with the Afghanistan people. I have replaced parts and my runs at full Choke but if I turn the gas off I can go half choke the turn the gas on before the bowl runs dry. I did what the guys in the forum said about the wire to clean all the little holes. Then I used a laser to check my work…wife thought I was crazy with a carb and laser in the dark but I know its clean. I’ll follow to see how it goes. Oh yeah bike shop here in South Korea took me for $100 but that included pick up and drop off fees. I do not like him right now…LOL
 
#44 ·
Cautiously optimistic...



Seems to be fixed. I re-dipped all the parts, washed and blown dry and reassembled. Except for the white space on the needle which I lost down the drain. Mounted the carb and it started up with the choke pulled. It revved when revved. It did not die out.



I still need to put the spacer in and button up the whole bike. But I think it will be running at the end of it all.



Lessons learned -

  1. You can't buy JUST the screw that holds the butterfly on. You can take one from work.
  2. You can't buy JUST the white spacer on the needle jet. You have to buy the needle and clip with it. But it is only $9.
  3. A TW will run - poorly, but will run - without the main spring in the carb.
  4. It will also run without the white spacer on the needle.
  5. It is easy to drop parts down the drain. These parts usually can't be purchased.
  6. It is possible to wedge a screw inside the top of the float bowl of a carb, so much that you think "Hmmm, will the bike run with this in there?". When you finally unwedge the screw, hopefully with no damage to the carb body, you will need to run a die over where you munched it with the pliers you used to unwedge it. Hopefully your workplace has a full set of taps & dies. Many don't these days.
  7. A dip tank is worth buying. An ultrasonic probably more so.
  8. Good weather is a great thing to motivate a motorcycle mechanic.
  9. Put your bike inside during winter if you can. If you can't, figure out a way that you can.
  10. This forum is great. The ideas and help never stopped. Thanks to everyone.



    Updates when it is actually on the road.



    THX



    JG
 
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