TW200 Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,516 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My TW is an 09.I have the factory service manual,while thumbing through the pages,I notice in the charging system section it advise's of an AC magneto generator. Am I taking the word generator too seriously or do we actually have a 3 phase system?. I'm electrically challenged by the way.I'm trying to find out the out put wattage of an 09's system.I'm confident this has been brought before,just point me in the right direction.......yes, I did search,but,I have a mojo following me when I attempt to find info. TIA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,369 Posts
'87-'00 are single phase. Output more dependendent on high rpm.



'00-up are three phase, better across the rpm range.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,621 Posts
Info I gathered from all over the tw archives . Most of which was originally posted by *** TW2007 *** who seemed much smarter then me with these things.



Estimated power consumption

at 12 volts



Headlight Draws 5 amps

Panel Lights Draw about 1 amp (Neutral, High Beam, Turn, Instrument Light Combined)

Tail Light Draws 1.5 amps

Two Front Turn Lights (not Flashing) 1.5 amps When Flashing add another 1.5 amps.

Brake Light - ON add another 1.5 amps (Unless you switch to a led one)



Total estimated 9 amps or 108 watts



NOTE: after 6000 rpm the bikes alternator does not have alot of additional capability and the curve goes relatively flat. From 6000 to 8000 rpm you only get 1 amp extra output.



So if you run a big load on the bike you need to keep the rpm between 4000 and 8000 if you want to carry a load and keep the battery charged. This can be challenging off-road especially down hill.









Newer Model Power Output averaged at 14v



RPM ............... AMPS.....................WATTS

2000 ..................8............................112

4000 ..................13..........................182

6000 ..................14..........................196

8000 ..................15..........................210





Early Models 87-96 (This seems really low can anyone else confirm?)



RPM.........Amps........Watts

2000............1..............14

4000...........2.2...........30.8

8000...........3..............42

11000.........3.3...........46.2





Notes

The TW200E and earlier i believe has the headlight running straight off the charging circuit bypassing the battery.This might account for the lower power figures in the table above if they are only measuring power going to the battery and not total output. If your headlight only comes on when you start the bike, this is what you have.



Other notes: On my 2009 If I turned the headlight off while idling the stock flooded battery started bubbling in moments. When I revved it the voltage spiked to 15 volts (amps unknown)







For a little extra juice..



Qwerty recommended putting in a 42w HID headlight with a lower power consumption then a stock headlight.



" TWs have a "balanced" electrical system--the bike draws a bit less than the alternator makes, with the difference trickle-charging the battery. "Balance" is necessary to insure solid performance. And it is necessary to maintain that balance to prevent over- or under-charging the battery. "
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,369 Posts
Senor Frog, the info in the late model supplement refers to your specific system and should be reasonably accurate.



It's a bit of a mess for the rest of us.



The numbers are a bit deceptive. There have actually been 3 charging systems. The early model figures are in fact the numbers for '87, which is a one-year-only system. The charging graph in the manual is for an '87.



Essentially the manual blows in that regard. Almost all the info in the factory manual pertains to the '87-only system which was designed to handle only the loads of tail lights, dash lights and turn signals. The headlight had its own independent coil and they had no front running lights. They didn't need much of a charging system initially.



The actual output of the '88-'00 units was increased in order to allow for the additional load imposed by the front running lights and headlight In other words they had the same static load as a late model, but the specs on that system never made their way into the factory manual, so those of us with the "middle" system have never had a good basis with which to judge how much buffer is in the system.



Also confusing is the fact that the early models had a 10 amp main fuse. The later bikes had a 20 amp main fuse but the bikes all used the same sized wiring as the early models and no individual wire on either version is even capable of handling 10 amps. Any high draw accessories should be operated via relay and increased wire sizes.



I've had all 3 systems on my bike at one time or another. I currently run the '88-'00 system. For all I know peak output may be similar to the late model but it stands to reason that it won't compete with the late model at lower rpm. Given that it's single phase and spec'd for a 35W headlight I don't push it.



Always a good idea to juggle loads and keep the total somewhere close to stock or ride by voltmeter. Our regulators arent real good at shedding excess heat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,516 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
WOW,gentleman!.....outstanding explanations!!!....both of you.I was confused about their term AC magneto generator?.This juggling act seems to be a pain!.I'm still looking at auxiliary lights?.....it would look to be a "safer" bet to rig lights to an additional battery....hence a Shorai,and just run them that way.I've already contacted Shorai and they advised their battery(s) are up to this task.Just divide the first number in the model specific model number by 3 and that will give you the continual load....I presume amp hour.....ability of the specific battery one chooses?.Any more input from you TW'ers would be appreciated!.TIA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,369 Posts
The problem with the newer bikes is that they took away the kicker so if you exceed the capacity of the system and start to affect charging you're afoot when you go to restart your bike. Plenty of folks run auxilliary gear, you just have to keep your expectations reasonable.



When it comes to the newer battery technologies you can now get much more capacity in less space. But everyone tends to go for lighter, smaller batteries of roughly equal capacity to stock and fills the excess space with foam. If it were me I'd take the opposite approach and take advantage of ALL the real estate in the battery box by getting the largest capacity modern battery that will physically fit into the space. By now I'm sure you can get 10-12AH batteries which fit into the space of a lead/acid 7AH unit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,621 Posts
Just don't run the shorai down very low. It takes away from it's life and voids the warranty .



Also they are not 100% waterproof. Their innards can get wet after repeated soakings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,369 Posts
Rich, I'm a little behind the curve on the newer batteries.



Do they actually put "tattletales" in them like they have in cellphones and other devices?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,621 Posts
They have a chip in them where you connect a shorai smart charger.



Conditions Not Covered

  • Over-voltage charging, or other error by charger or user setting of charger. Do not exceed 14.8 volts
  • Use in excess of cranking (CCA) specifications
  • Short circuit of main terminals or BMS port
  • Improper connections to the 5-pin BMS port
  • Over-discharge (i.e. resting voltage allowed to fall below 12.8V/6.4V for Lfx 12V/6V types)
  • Physical Damage to the pack occurring after purchase (impact, water/salt corrosion, etc)




I'm looking for a cutaway pic.. Until I find one enjoy this one



The story was early versions had a design defect that has since been corrected.



I sent the owner of this one an email asking for a postmortem examination.









Maybe they are full of these




 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,369 Posts
Very sexy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,516 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Didn't that shorai picture come from a Ducati owner?......if so,I believe he was running several aftermarket goodies.....I could be mistaken on the bike make?.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,621 Posts
The melted battery owner is JesusGatos over at ADV



His bike and story



2010 KTM 450XCW with a Trailtech high-output stator and DC conversion kit, powering a 8" Baja Designs HID racelight and grip heaters. Worked great for the first twelve months, and then crapped-out overnight. Came out one morning and my bike wouldn't start. Removed the seat only to find that the battery had completely melted.



The Trailtech reg/rec that I used to convert everything over to DC has a built-in relay that shuts-off the headlight automatically about 30 seconds after the engine stops, and that 8" HID light only pulls about 42W anyway. Grip heaters are the only other electrical accessory I've added. Those also pull about 40W and are wired to a switch and then straight to the battery, and have accidentally left the grip heaters on a few times. That drained the battery, but it never seemed to hurt anything. Haven't used the grip heaters all summer though, so can't imagine what might have put enough of a load on the battery to melt it overnight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
By disconnecting the low-beam, my headlight is rarely on, which saves THE major draw on the battery.



I know, I know, this is probably a felony in California, New York and North Korea, but I ride mostly in The South.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
Last year I bought some Gerbings heated gear and infastructure, installed the infastructure on my TW and ended up never using it as I was concerned about the power output supporting multiple heated garmets. The above info is very interesting, perhaps complicated by the fact my bike is a '94. On the other hand, the yamaha service manual shows multiple outputs (coils) with the ignition having its' own supply to the CDI seperate from the battery / lights / starter regime. In practice, that seems to mean the bike will run regardless of what is going on with the other circuit.



It would be interesting to know what demands are being put on the battery circuit via house loads and extra stuff we want to add. I looked around and finding what seems to be an appropriate ammeter but did not find anything appropriate. What I did find (procycle) is a nifty digital voltmeter .

Given the fact that different bikes have different outputs at different RPMS, the speed of the engine is in constant variation, it does not really matter what the bike is putting out at any given time versus your total load (which also varies). You can infer that load as an average via an accurate volt meter.



If your operating voltage is down below what a fully charged battery puts out, then you have exceded the output of the system. The battery is obviously supplying power to support part the load you have imposed. That might actually be OK in some circiumstance, day time so the head light can be dimmer would be one of them. Eventually the battery will not be able to supply anything. A conventional lead acid battery (within limits) should be able to deal with this operating regime w/o much trouble. Exotic chemistry batteries are another matter. I suspect it is very hard to stay inside their required perameters with a TW.



I am re-installing external power stuff on my bike this weekend, will run it for a while and give a report. rw
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,516 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Canyon......it will be interesting to read your results.....thanks for taking the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
326 Posts
I'll be waiting as well as I also have a '94. The manual has horrible schematics for the charging systems. The one in the manual is for the '87 one year only charging system and the suppliment is for the '01 and later systems. I think we're in limbo.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top