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Discussion Starter #1
On a lot of forums, there is a buyer feedback thread, or even subforum.

Advantages to a subforum is buyers/sellers could have their own username thread, and all sellers/buyers who interact with them can leave specific feedback on a thread which can be linked in one's signature. With a thread at large, one is required to search for a username in a giant thread if they want to check out a seller/buyer's feedback. The subforum idea means this can be easily found in a sig block.

I know the classified section is not the main focus of this site, but just thought I'd throw this idea out there in case it's able to be done.
 

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I believe our forum is more friend oriented then most and the last thing I'm going to do is tarnish my name. I've sold and shipped items to members before I even received the funds. I would be cautious to ship anything to a new member who appears to be hiding there identity.
I'm not sure if you noticed that most of us sell our items way below the price that you can find them on eBay.
That said I don't think we need a feedback Sub-forum.
 

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Hey there

If you are having trouble with a certain member, you can bring it to the attention of the mod team to look in to for you. Even on sites that do have the feedback, the moderators are the ones to step in to revoke permissions in order to keep the rest of the community safe from interacting with the particularly-negative-feedback members. And for the more enjoyable deals that have gone down, I'm sure a mention of that member in your build/project thread when you install the part would not be out of line :)

Dayle
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
TopPred - I see your point. This is, in many regards, a very fraternal forum with many long-standing members who have no need to know that each other are good to go: such information has been known for years in some cases. But for example, user Tuna is fairly new. How would he know that yourself or someone else is 100% good to go? Moreover, he has recently sold some items and it was a GREAT transaction from my perspective. I'd love to be able to make that known to anyone, especially newer users, who might do business with him in the future. dcbakr78 offered to send me the boots he is selling for me to try for sizing before paying, and just send them back if they don't fit. Where else does such a transaction happen? That's a 225 dollar bet on CS1983 being trustworthy (I am). PlacerLode sent out the Jimbo windshield on my word that I'd mailed the money order. And you know what? If that darn thing fails to make it to him, I'll send another. Perhaps this idea seems good because the only other forums I participate on are gun forums, and the nature of the items being sold on there are high dollar (like, 3k dollar scopes). Just an idea. It might be gilding the lily. That's really up to the mods to decide I suppose.

VSAdmin - I've had no problems with anyone. The idea is more along the lines of letting any and all users, not just old timers, know that User X is good to go and can be trusted in a deal, especially one which might involve need for a part to be sent before payment arrives.
 

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Most of us post a post in the original thread after we buy/trade/sell parts to another member thanking them or voicing any concerns. This has so far been very effective. If a newbie (no offense meant) ripped off a member in a transaction, I'm pretty sure the rest of us would posse up and go get him!! :D

TopPred - I see your point. This is, in many regards, a very fraternal forum with many long-standing members who have no need to know that each other are good to go: such information has been known for years in some cases. But for example, user Tuna is fairly new. How would he know that yourself or someone else is 100% good to go? Moreover, he has recently sold some items and it was a GREAT transaction from my perspective. I'd love to be able to make that known to anyone, especially newer users, who might do business with him in the future. dcbakr78 offered to send me the boots he is selling for me to try for sizing before paying, and just send them back if they don't fit. Where else does such a transaction happen? That's a 225 dollar bet on CS1983 being trustworthy (I am). PlacerLode sent out the Jimbo windshield on my word that I'd mailed the money order. And you know what? If that darn thing fails to make it to him, I'll send another. Perhaps this idea seems good because the only other forums I participate on are gun forums, and the nature of the items being sold on there are high dollar (like, 3k dollar scopes). Just an idea. It might be gilding the lily. That's really up to the mods to decide I suppose.

VSAdmin - I've had no problems with anyone. The idea is more along the lines of letting any and all users, not just old timers, know that User X is good to go and can be trusted in a deal, especially one which might involve need for a part to be sent before payment arrives.
 

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I just wish people would be honest. I have only been ripped off here once and it was from a guy who is fairly well regarded. I won't go into details but there are arse holes and doosh bags everywhere. I think it would be a good idea to have ranking system.
 

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Well DA – that’s the problem right there.

On one hand you say he’s a “fairly well regarded” person, on the other, you suggest he’s a “doosh bag” – and let’s face it, he’s unlikely to be both.

This is the problem with a rating system – it can only ever reflect one person’s experience on a single transaction, which may work for Fleabay, but more than half the negative comments there are refuted by the seller. Because this site works on a more “personal” level, this can only end in a pissing match, (and it would be a bit unfair if we didn’t allow the seller a right to reply).

If someone sells an item on here and does you wrong, word gets around soon enough without a rating system – and if you feel aggrieved you could point it out to a mod. But as a private transaction between two individuals, there’s little we could do about it, unless the evidence stacks up from different sources over time, and even then, you’d be dragging the board into what is after all a private agreement. The guy’s name would be mud long before we get there.

So – there will always be a winner and a loser in an argument over what happened – and who will be the judge ?

No sense in starting a war over spilt milk – otherwise, Paypal is your friend ……… ;)
 

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Hey guys,

Thank you for all of your feedback.
There is a plug in that allows members to give feedback to specific members, and it is shown on their profile.
Here is the plug in: Major Additions - iTrader v2.8 - Powerful Rating System - vBulletin.org Forum
And here is an example of said plug in on another site called archerytalk.com:(removed link)

We can look into adding this in, it would first need to be brought to the mod team for them to look over before we go ahead.
How does everyone feel about this? Any feedback?

Richard.
 

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Archery site is asking me to login (sign up) so I can't view what you are pointing too.

I say NO we do not need this.

The bad comments will outweigh the good comments.

Disgruntled buyer forum members should be in PM phase with seller forum member that has done them wrong to work out any bad deal. Should not be in open forum...unless said seller was an ass about the deal. Then buyer could "out" the seller. If not worked out, take 'em to court if it's that bad.

If and when a buyer has outed a seller here on the forum it can cause other forum members to then "take sides". We don't need more hate and discontent than we have already seen on this forum in the past. But some people can't help themselves!

Alex, NO is my final answer!

P.S. I will never offer to help something between a seller and buyer again!
 

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I say no also. Most of the transactions that take place are between the regular and known/trusted members. It would only create problems. We take care of our own here. If someone gets ripped off, we'll git em!!! :p As Admiral pointed out, solve the problems by PM's not on the open forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
As the OP just throwing this at the wall, I'm not into the idea of a feature which respected members do not want. The original idea was more along the lines of bringing the good to a consolidated place, not so much to allow a vector for hurt feelings reports and to disallow adults to work things out like adults. As others have said, it seems to work ok in its present form. If this would not be an improvement, then it shouldn't be done.

It could benefit newer members, who might not post much, both in buying and selling (a track record quickly established). However, rules, laws, and feedback only server one purpose: the bring to light the reality of the good or bad in a person. It won't discourage shenanigans. If the leadership of the forum, and the "forum ancients" so to speak, feel this would be a bad addition, then far be it from me to defend an idea -- even if I originally brought it to the fore.
 

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CS1983,

I do applaud you for thinking and mentioning an idea. I have no qualms with this at all. I do think a comment section would show an overwhelming amount of positive comments, but it would just take a couple negative ones which could cause things to swing south.

I considered answering this for a long time before I posted my comments which is based on personal experiences/observations.

I do think this would work when dealing with commercial vendors, just not as enthusiastic when it involves dealings between private parties, in this case forum members.
 

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Hey guys,

Thank you for all of your feedback.
There is a plug in that allows members to give feedback to specific members, and it is shown on their profile.
Here is the plug in: Major Additions - iTrader v2.8 - Powerful Rating System - vBulletin.org Forum
And here is an example of said plug in on another site called archerytalk.com: ArcheryTalk Forum: Archery Target, Bowhunting, Classifieds, Chat

We can look into adding this in, it would first need to be brought to the mod team for them to look over before we go ahead.
How does everyone feel about this? Any feedback?

Richard.
Nope - and for the above reasons in my last post - the members on here have been ready to lynch each other for lesser transgressions, no need to give us another excuse

(In fact, I'm not entirely sure that archery link was a good idea when it comes to it)

But thanks for the thought ..... ;)
 

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Well....let's just go one step further and allow Sellers to add feedback on the Buyers then.

This is not always the case but I'm sure some of us here (I know we have) sent something to a member (normally free of charge) only to have them not say a damn word, not a "thank you", or "got the part you sent and it totally didn't work or it sucked"...nothing. Some just disappear after they take all they can get from the forum members and we don't hear from them again until they need something else.

A majority of the folks on here are good people who just want to help others out. We want to be good, respectable and decent people. We want to help you out if we have something you need or can do you a favor. I'm sure there are a lot of free items being sent around between forum members that we never hear about.
BUT the cold hard truth is there are some folks here who expect too much for what they are selling or too much for what they are getting and neither will ever be happy with the deal.

As a seller it is your responsibility to accurately describe the item you have and not to take advantage of someone.
As a buyer it is your responsibility to ask important questions, get pictures and not allow someone to take advantage of you.

If, as a buyer, you feel like you got screwed in the deal then you deal with the person who gave you the screwing and don't drag other people into it. YOU will cause hard feelings by bringing people into it that weren't part of the original deal!

Just my two cents worth..
 

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Very well said Lori.

(but I think it's a nickels worth) haha

Well....let's just go one step further and allow Sellers to add feedback on the Buyers then.

This is not always the case but I'm sure some of us here (I know we have) sent something to a member (normally free of charge) only to have them not say a damn word, not a "thank you", or "got the part you sent and it totally didn't work or it sucked"...nothing. Some just disappear after they take all they can get from the forum members and we don't hear from them again until they need something else.

A majority of the folks on here are good people who just want to help others out. We want to be good, respectable and decent people. We want to help you out if we have something you need or can do you a favor. I'm sure there are a lot of free items being sent around between forum members that we never hear about.
BUT the cold hard truth is there are some folks here who expect too much for what they are selling or too much for what they are getting and neither will ever be happy with the deal.

As a seller it is your responsibility to accurately describe the item you have and not to take advantage of someone.
As a buyer it is your responsibility to ask important questions, get pictures and not allow someone to take advantage of you.

If, as a buyer, you feel like you got screwed in the deal then you deal with the person who gave you the screwing and don't drag other people into it. YOU will cause hard feelings by bringing people into it that weren't part of the original deal!

Just my two cents worth..
 

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Well DA – that’s the problem right there.

On one hand you say he’s a “fairly well regarded” person, on the other, you suggest he’s a “doosh bag” – and let’s face it, he’s unlikely to be both.

This is the problem with a rating system – it can only ever reflect one person’s experience on a single transaction, which may work for Fleabay, but more than half the negative comments there are refuted by the seller. Because this site works on a more “personal” level, this can only end in a pissing match, (and it would be a bit unfair if we didn’t allow the seller a right to reply).

If someone sells an item on here and does you wrong, word gets around soon enough without a rating system – and if you feel aggrieved you could point it out to a mod. But as a private transaction between two individuals, there’s little we could do about it, unless the evidence stacks up from different sources over time, and even then, you’d be dragging the board into what is after all a private agreement. The guy’s name would be mud long before we get there.

So – there will always be a winner and a loser in an argument over what happened – and who will be the judge ?

No sense in starting a war over spilt milk – otherwise, Paypal is your friend ……… ;)
Purple, there are things you should know.

I bet you edit your post or I will replace mine. I have given away more value in stuff on this forum than I have been ripped off by this one member. It's not about the money.

Should we post the persons name up here?
 

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My initial thoughts were not to get involved in this, especially as a mod, because that position comes with a requirement for “impartiality”. But as this particular case highlights the inherent flaws in a “feedback” system, I shall go against my better judgement, and rely on my talent both for getting into trouble – and getting out of it.

Although we’re looking at a specific case here – this is for everybody – as it shows just what can go wrong with any transaction, and not only on here. The following tale is my personal take on this, and I hope that no-one takes offense as none is intended to the parties involved. But it does highlight the weakness of a feedback system, so read on …….

DA – I got up this morning and had a PM from someone unconnected to this case, who shed some light on what you are referring to. I remember the item well as it happens, partly to do with the condition of it, and partly due the price of it. My initial thoughts on said item were along the lines of “no freaking way” (or words to that effect), and having recovered my keyboard from the coffee that I had just spewed over it, had cause to wonder just why Americans are so crazy about these things.

Honestly mate – “All the Kings horses and all the Kings men” would have struggled from what I saw in that picture – never before has the phrase “sold as seen” been more relevant. Mine is not to reason why however, so I thought “no chance”, and went to read another thread.

How is any kind of “feedback” option going to tell us that you walked into that deal with your eyes wide open, and simply paid too much for it. Is that the sellers fault, or yours ? – and has the seller done his best to rectify the matter, while your still concerned about “principles”. I even understand that the seller offered you a substantial refund on that item – but as you say – by then, it was about the “principle”.

Who is at fault here – and how would giving negative feedback solve it, other than to “vent your spleen” over that for which you are partly to blame.

All this whole episode serves to do, is to cause friction between members, and make enemies of friends – by now, “he” is probably muttering under his breath about me getting involved here, and you (and everyone else) are probably thinking that I’m an arsehole.

This is a prime case of “dual responsibility”, something that a feedback form would never reflect.

“Judge Judy” would have banged both your heads together by now …….

/rant

There is no more reason to trust a seller (or a buyer) on this board than you would on Craigslist. We do not vet people on here, nor should we seek to do so, and misunderstandings are seldom resolved by feedback. The seller puts a price on something, and if you accept that price, then it’s “buyer beware”. In the case above, the seller put what he thought was a fair price on it, and the buyer accepted that price. The buyer made a complaint, which should have been resolved by the partial refund. But how do you put a price on “principles” ?

Just because someone’s well respected on here doesn’t mean that misunderstandings can’t happen, and the moment you think that that it does, the whole thing goes pear shaped as you drag the rest of the board into (what is after all) a private transaction. I suspect the above “clash” had nothing to do with a difference in “principles”, or the offer of a partial refund wouldn’t have come into it.

Gentlemen – life’s too short for stuff like this – get over it – feedback (or naming someone) would only make it worse.

As I said before, Paypal is your friend – don’t drag the rest of us into it ….. :cool:
 

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......

Although we’re looking at a specific case here – this is for everybody – as it shows just what can go wrong with any transaction, and not only on here. The following tale is my personal take on this, and I hope that no-one takes offense as none is intended to the parties involved. But it does highlight the weakness of a feedback system, so read on …….

DA – I got up this morning and had a PM from someone unconnected to this case, who shed some light on what you are referring to. I remember the item well as it happens, partly to do with the condition of it, and partly due the price of it. My initial thoughts on said item were along the lines of “no freaking way” (or words to that effect), and having recovered my keyboard from the coffee that I had just spewed over it, had cause to wonder just why Americans are so crazy about these things.

Honestly mate – “All the Kings horses and all the Kings men” would have struggled from what I saw in that picture – never before has the phrase “sold as seen” been more relevant. Mine is not to reason why however, so I thought “no chance”, and went to read another thread.

. ... :cool:
Actually you don't know what you're talking about. You're just pulling a good story line out of your rear to make your point, regardless of whether it has a resemblance to the actual facts. Pictures were sent and correspondence took place through PMs. The additional pictures did not accurately reflect the condition and in fact were taken to hide flaws. Questions were asked and the replies were lies.
 
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