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Discussion Starter #1
I love my TW. I love it for what it is...a great off-road street legal trail bike.

I'm considering eventually getting a 2nd bike. Mainly so I can teach my two boys to ride as they get older (I think the TW is perfect learning bike). So I don't know if I should get another TW, or get something I know will address the things that the TW lacks...higher speed for highway mainly (for when needed).

Definitely want a dual-sport. Leaning Yamaha again but not ruling out Honda or Kawasaki, maybe even KTM.

I wouldn't mind a little bigger (cc and seat height) but don't want to go too big. I'm 5'10", 170.

Possibilities: WR250R, CRF250, KLX250, others...

Thoughts?
 

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Get a second TW.

1) Your boys will feel less like second class citizens if they ride the same bike as their Dad is riding. Young adults appreciate being treated as young adults. They can more readily learn by mirroring your style and techniques better than if you were demonstrating atop a KTM 530EXC.

2) When something goes wrong with one TW you have a second TW for comparison purposes as well as parts exchange for a diagnostic aid. This really comes in handy when trying to decide whether to buy a new carb, a new CDI, or stator source and pulse coils

3) Get a third more powerful bike when the wife isn't looking.;)
 

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If you're looking for a secondary bike that has a little more power/long-distance riding capabilities, I'd highly recommend a Suzuki SV650 or the Yamaha MT07. Both have great engines that are tried and true, are a great size/weight (not quite going to superbike or sport bike status), and both are reasonably affordable, and it's likely easy to find used ones. I rode a 2007 SV650 for almost 3yrs, and it was a great motorcycle.
 

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Fred makes great points. Especially about having a second same bike to swap parts over to narrow in on what’s wrong. I woulda probably bought a lot of unnecessary parts just hoping throwing new parts at it would magically fix the problem.
 

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How old and how big are the boys.....the TW is pretty heavy for a 9-13 year old......I got them Honda XR 100s - 175s as they were not going to ride on open roads...…. when they got into their mid teens and were able to buy their own bikes they got high performance yappy two strokes ……. now that they are in their 40s they like the old mans bike ..the TW....

I live very near a section of the Washington Backcountry Discovery Road that involves some highway riding and they are all riding various 650s Duel Sports..... same in Alaska..

I love the Triumph Scrambler but I doubt it is much fun off roads...
 

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If you want a 250ish class dual sport, you can find KLX250's out there for fairly cheap, and they're my pick of the old school 250's. The Honda 250L is overweight and underpowered. People like to think the WR250 being that it's "based" on the 250F motocross motor would have a lot more punch, but the WR250F (the off road version) and the WR250R (the road legal dual sport) have virtually nothing in common. The R version is so choked up with emissions controls and de-tuning it has a fraction of the power it should (you can get it back, but figure quite a bit of $$$ you have to sink in) and they really don't run very well out of the box. The WR also reeks of cost-cutting, everything is right from the parts bin and to me feels overpriced for what you get. The KLX isn't as porky as the 250L, and the motor is more entertaining and has more of an aftermarket, and overall fit and finish feels better. The KLX only got fuel injection last year, so if you like the simplicity of a carb there's an ocean of used ones still out there sporting carbs. The 250L has always been EFI, and the WR250 has been for the last few years.

When it comes to dual sports Euro bikes corner the market for a good reason. Find a used 350EXC. You can find clean low hours ones in the 4-5k range, it'll blow anything Japan makes out of the water. Also contrary to what most people think, KTM or Beta engines are extremely reliable. Buddy has over 500hrs on his 500EXC and it's been flawless. I have over 200hrs on my 2 stroke Beta Xtrainer (plated, so it's technically a dual sport). Both are on original engines and are nowhere near "worn out".
 

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I love my TW. I love it for what it is...a great off-road street legal trail bike.

I'm considering eventually getting a 2nd bike. Mainly so I can teach my two boys to ride as they get older (I think the TW is perfect learning bike). So I don't know if I should get another TW, or get something I know will address the things that the TW lacks...higher speed for highway mainly (for when needed).

Definitely want a dual-sport. Leaning Yamaha again but not ruling out Honda or Kawasaki, maybe even KTM.

I wouldn't mind a little bigger (cc and seat height) but don't want to go too big. I'm 5'10", 170.

Possibilities: WR250R, CRF250, KLX250, others...

Thoughts?
Consider a trials bike. Riding one will add to your low speed skill set and make you a better. safer rider all around.
 

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The real issue is not really KTM versus Japanese bikes. It has a lot more to do with how a given model was designed. Any very high performance model, whether European or Japanese, is going to be significantly less durable. Euro bikes are typically designed with considerably more power than "comparable" Japanese models, meaning that typically, the Euro models will have a greater propensity for problems and will be less durable. There is ample evidence for this assertion, if you really look for it; I have ridden thousands of hours on multiple different motorcycles, communicated with hundreds of people about their bikes, riding habits, problems with their bikes, general ownership experiences, etc., as well as having done hundreds of hours of research on this general topic. While there are MANY varied factors that contribute to reliability and long term durability, generally speaking, a motor of any given displacement is going to be more durable if it makes relatively low power (for that displacement) and less durable if it makes relatively high power. More power (and more power being APPLIED -- which depends on riding habits/riding style, displacement and total horsepower relative to the power typically needed and USED from a given motor) means increased wear on pistons/rings, bearings, etc. To illustrate, consider the typical, aggressively-ridden, modern motocross 250 with 40 horsepower that needs a top end every 40 hours. Compare that to, say, something like my 20 horsepower DR 200...half the horsepower, but I had over 900 hours on it when I sold it (on all original motor internals), and it still ran like an absolute sewing machine when I sold it, in spite of the fact that I rode that bike HARD (constant 7,000 RPM on the highway for hours at a time, regularly; regularly revving to 8k+ RPM and slipping the crap out of the clutch all the time at slow speeds in very high heat riding environments in highly technical and extremely challenging off road terrain). Due to the reasons stated above, it is absolutely true that the typical Japanese dual sport, on average, will require less frequent maintenance and be more durable than the typical European dual sport.
 

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One of the best KTM dealers in East Tennessee told me the same thing and for the same reasons. If your willing to take good care of them then you will be happy. If you treat it like a Dub then not so much.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
How old and how big are the boys.....the TW is pretty heavy for a 9-13 year old......I got them Honda XR 100s - 175s as they were not going to ride on open roads...…. when they got into their mid teens and were able to buy their own bikes they got high performance yappy two strokes ……. now that they are in their 40s they like the old mans bike ..the TW....

I live very near a section of the Washington Backcountry Discovery Road that involves some highway riding and they are all riding various 650s Duel Sports..... same in Alaska..

I love the Triumph Scrambler but I doubt it is much fun off roads...


My boys are 14 and 10 currently, so I’m not looking to get them riding right away. The problem with where I live (and the biggest reason I chose dual-sport) is that there are not that many places to ride off road that are legal. Our best bet are the OHV trails in Sam Houston National Forest just north of Houston. But they close a lot, and leave one with limited options for other riding. Otherwise I would probably buy them pure dirt bikes.

I figure by the time my older son is 16, teach him on the TW and that gives options. If trails are closed, go ride the fire and service roads. I also eventually want to ride Big Bend and other great dual sport riding destinations.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If you want a 250ish class dual sport, you can find KLX250's out there for fairly cheap, and they're my pick of the old school 250's. The Honda 250L is overweight and underpowered. People like to think the WR250 being that it's "based" on the 250F motocross motor would have a lot more punch, but the WR250F (the off road version) and the WR250R (the road legal dual sport) have virtually nothing in common. The R version is so choked up with emissions controls and de-tuning it has a fraction of the power it should (you can get it back, but figure quite a bit of $$$ you have to sink in) and they really don't run very well out of the box. The WR also reeks of cost-cutting, everything is right from the parts bin and to me feels overpriced for what you get. The KLX isn't as porky as the 250L, and the motor is more entertaining and has more of an aftermarket, and overall fit and finish feels better. The KLX only got fuel injection last year, so if you like the simplicity of a carb there's an ocean of used ones still out there sporting carbs. The 250L has always been EFI, and the WR250 has been for the last few years.

When it comes to dual sports Euro bikes corner the market for a good reason. Find a used 350EXC. You can find clean low hours ones in the 4-5k range, it'll blow anything Japan makes out of the water. Also contrary to what most people think, KTM or Beta engines are extremely reliable. Buddy has over 500hrs on his 500EXC and it's been flawless. I have over 200hrs on my 2 stroke Beta Xtrainer (plated, so it's technically a dual sport). Both are on original engines and are nowhere near "worn out".
This post caught my attention as this is exactly the direction I’m leaning. I will probably stay in the 250ish range so I have been doing a lot of reading and YouTube research on this class of dual-sport.

My conclusions so far...

The WR250R very much appeals to me except for 2 things...price and ride height. I know the height can be adjusted but still. I agree the Honda seems a little under-powered and heavier. The KLX seems like a nice in-the-middle bike with a better ride height for me. I definitely want to be able to stand flat-footed straddling the bike. The trails here are sandy and the bike will get squirrelly so being able to put your feet down is a good thing.

Kawasaki just came out with the KLX230 which looks really cool too. I have time to research. Not in a big hurry. I tend to heavily research (stalk) items before making big purchases.
 

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If I was in the market for a new dual sport....the first think I would do is check out those Chinese Bikes.....
 

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I've ridden both the KLX and WR quite a lot, and I can confirm (as can a dyno graph) that the WR motor definitely and notably outperforms the KLX. Both are weak on the bottom end, but the WR will rev higher; the WR also just feels way more comfortable over 9k RPM than the KLX -- the WR doesn't mind being up there for a minute, while the KLX feels like it's straining at those revs. It is true that it does not perform like a 250F motor, but that is to be expected for a more durable dual sport application. That machine's performance is about as high as it can be (for a 250) without sacrificing streetability too much. The WR's suspension is better -- mostly because it is fully adjustable. Also, the KLX is prone to cam chain tensioner issues -- no issues with that on the WR (just watch out for the whole chain digging into swing-arm issue that certain sprocket size combos can cause).

I was not a fan of the fit and finish or the general quality of materials on the KLX: the plastics are cheap and brittle; the stock levers are the cheap kind that snap easily; the exhaust isn't mounted that smartly and will easily bend during drops, etc. The WR is also far superior in that regard.

P.S. I also research the hell of of any major purchase.
 

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From what I've been seeing about the klx230 I wouldn't touch one until there is an aftermarket fix for the fueling. That bright red glowing header pipe just isn't a good thing. A DR200 or XT225 is so much more appealing than those new injected bikes.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
 

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The seat looks comfortable.
 

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...and the dealer in the video says "the glass kind of melts", and " You have to grease the rubber or it will snap" and "not legal in California".
Otherwise Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?:p
 
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