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Discussion Starter #1
This one has some serious potential:

New Yamaha Tenere 700 Prototype Spotted - ADV Pulse

The first time I saw a picture of an XT660Z Tenere I was seriously intrigued, until I realized that it's powered by a big thumper. No thanks.

This new 700 twin, if they do it right, could be the cat's pajamas. If they can make it as light as the rumor mill said the new Africa Twin was going to be (under 450 Lbs - which of course the AT is NOT in reality), it could be a phenomenal machine. I sure hope they don't screw it up!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Most of those big adventure bike seldom see and off road miles. They are bought and used just like most of the expensive jeeps and Hummers with all the bells and whistles for boulevarding.
Indeed, that is true, not that there is anything wrong with that. There are plenty of features of big enduros that also work to the benefit of street-only riders. If you buy a bike, truck, or Jeep than I think you should use it however you want so long as that makes you happy. As the rider of a street legal Rokon hack, I'm sure you would agree that the intended use of a vehicle is less important than the actual use that the owner enjoys.

Of course, part of the problem is that big enduros have become more and more street biased by design, which is what makes a lighter bike with an 18/21 wheel set and decent suspension so appealing for those of us that actually do use our ADV bikes off-pavement. Plenty of riders thrashed (and some continue to thrash) their KTM 950s and 990s in the rough stuff, if this 700 is anything like those dirt monsters than I'm sure plenty of riders will abuse them similarly and love every minute of it.

Rally Raid UK has had to temporarily stop taking orders for their CB500X Level 3 Conversion kits so that they can expand the production machinery in their shop to meet the demand. That is market-based proof positive that there are a lot of riders out there that want a genuinely dirt capable adventure bike. An FZ-07 based ADV bike could be a real factory alternative to what Rally Raid is offering, and with an 18/21 wheel set, Yamaha reliability, and a low enough wet weight it could even ascend to the throne that KTM left vacant when they discontinued the 990 ADV.
 

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The fz-o7 and fz-o9 are really good bikes and are selling very well. I think this one will fly out the door. I think I would seriously consider one as I'm already well aware of the fz-o7 & o9 and how they torque low end.
I demo'd an FZ-09, and that bike was positively face-melting. What an engine! Keep in mind, my daily rider is a 135 hp/90 Lb-ft Triumph 1215 triple and the FZ-09 still made a huge impression on me. If I was in the market for a chain driven sport tourer I would be all about the FJ-09. From the many complaints about the 'character' of the Super Tenere's 1200, I think Mr. Yamaha might have been well served to mate that 847 Triple to a shaft drive for their flagship adventure bike instead. Still, I think the triple is probably too much engine for dirt riding, the 700 twin is most likely a better fit.
 

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I've done a few good solid high speed power wheelies on an FZ09, Don, and I couldn't agree more about the engine. Put that beast in A-mode and WOW, it really yanks you along lol! Personally I think the FZ-07 engine would be much better for an ADV bike, though.

I have to admit, this could be a pretty nice ADV bike, if...

If they, by some miracle, manage to get a final production model to weigh in at 425 pounds wet, I might even be seriously interested; that's almost light enough to use as a dual sport. Power and transmission highly suitable for all day fast lane blasting, but still half decent off road - it could be nice.


On a side note, Don, how have you been getting on with your Rally Raid 3 CB500X? Any issues yet with the bike or with any part of the kit? How has it been riding off road on that bike? Do any somewhat serious enduro stuff on it?
 

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This also could be something promising :)

Honda NX650 Dominator Coming Back for 2017? - ADV Pulse


IMO, however, an NX650 would fail miserably in today's market without a few major changes to reflect the modern age (minus the extra million pounds...).

I know nothing of any details of this patent, but seems more logical to me that the patents would be for a factory-Honda CB500 Adventure, or something similar.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
On a side note, Don, how have you been getting on with your Rally Raid 3 CB500X? Any issues yet with the bike or with any part of the kit? How has it been riding off road on that bike? Do any somewhat serious enduro stuff on it?
Strictly speaking, my CB isn't completely done yet.

The task of installing this kit and all of the other upgrades I tackled at the same time was frankly a bit of a stretch for my level of mechanical experience and in the end a stupid mistake on my part related to Honda's ludicrous drive chain tensioner has sidelined the bike until I get some replacement parts in. I only got a short shakedown ride in (that incidentally shook the drive chain tensioner out of the swing arm) but I can say that the suspension upgrade fundamentally transforms the bike. It's about as tall as my old KLR650 with the stock seat now, but much easier to ride with a lower center of gravity. I have very high hopes for the finished product once I am able to repair the damage my negligence caused.

I think I'm glad I did everything myself, right down to spooning on my own tires for the first time, but the cost of the learning experience has been a lot of down time for the bike.
 

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I always love these guys' videos :)

 

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Did that guy read my mind?
I really think a lot of us want what this guy described in the end: "an adventurized big-bore enduro bike". One of the top comments on that video is "What we are all looking for is a WR450R, but Yamaha won't build it for some reason", or something like that. BINGO, haha! I've been spouting off how great a bike like that would be for years. It would check SO MANY boxes for so many different types of riders: reasonably priced, reliable and low maintenance, powerful, good looking/modern, six speed, EFI, good (and fully adjustable) suspension, decent sub frame, light weight, off road capable...Yamaha is really missing the boat here IMO!
 

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I really think a lot of us want what this guy described in the end: "an adventurized big-bore enduro bike". One of the top comments on that video is "What we are all looking for is a WR450R, but Yamaha won't build it for some reason", or something like that. BINGO, haha! I've been spouting off how great a bike like that would be for years. It would check SO MANY boxes for so many different types of riders: reasonably priced, reliable and low maintenance, powerful, good looking/modern, six speed, EFI, good (and fully adjustable) suspension, decent sub frame, light weight, off road capable...Yamaha is really missing the boat here IMO!
Or Honda,Kawasaki,Suzuki.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
IMO, however, an NX650 would fail miserably in today's market without a few major changes to reflect the modern age (minus the extra million pounds...).

I know nothing of any details of this patent, but seems more logical to me that the patents would be for a factory-Honda CB500 Adventure, or something similar.
I completely agree with you here, a new NX650 would just be another tooth-rattling big thumper dinosaur that would never be able to compete with the well-established aftermarket that keeps the KLR and DR650 selling. Something like the XT660Z, which is due to be phased out of the markets in which it is sold and hopefully replaced by a bike powered by a twin.

However, the details of that patent seem to suggest that this new "NX650" is actually powered by a 650 twin, which as one commenter in the linked article points out really makes it more of a new Transalp. I think that a modernized Transalp is something that a lot more riders could get excited about.

I really think a lot of us want what this guy described in the end: "an adventurized big-bore enduro bike". One of the top comments on that video is "What we are all looking for is a WR450R, but Yamaha won't build it for some reason", or something like that. BINGO, haha! I've been spouting off how great a bike like that would be for years. It would check SO MANY boxes for so many different types of riders: reasonably priced, reliable and low maintenance, powerful, good looking/modern, six speed, EFI, good (and fully adjustable) suspension, decent sub frame, light weight, off road capable...Yamaha is really missing the boat here IMO!
I don't disagree with anything you say here. There are plenty of people that are modifying enduros to be more travel friendly, so that indicates the popular demand for these kinds of bikes. Depending upon where you live it's not actually that hard to get a 450 street legal though (AZ, for example), and if people would stop buying the carbureted bikes then the Japanese manufacturers might start offering more durable, proven platforms like the DR and DRZ in FI versions. Of course, Yamaha's WR250R is pretty peppy for a dualsport-tuned 250 and the aftermarket for that bike is very robust.

I think the bigger gap in the market is for genuinely dirt capable middleweight twins. That's what I think is so exciting about a possible XT700Z, if it weighs in under 450 Lbs then there really won't be anything else on the market like it. Of course if it weighs in closer to 500 Lbs, it will be a complete waste of everyone's time. Bikes with 18/21 wheels, light weight, and smooth twin engines just don't exist in today's market.
 

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I completely agree with you here, a new NX650 would just be another tooth-rattling big thumper dinosaur that would never be able to compete with the well-established aftermarket that keeps the KLR and DR650 selling. Something like the XT660Z, which is due to be phased out of the markets in which it is sold and hopefully replaced by a bike powered by a twin.

However, the details of that patent seem to suggest that this new "NX650" is actually powered by a 650 twin, which as one commenter in the linked article points out really makes it more of a new Transalp. I think that a modernized Transalp is something that a lot more riders could get excited about.



I don't disagree with anything you say here. There are plenty of people that are modifying enduros to be more travel friendly, so that indicates the popular demand for these kinds of bikes. Depending upon where you live it's not actually that hard to get a 450 street legal though (AZ, for example), and if people would stop buying the carbureted bikes then the Japanese manufacturers might start offering more durable, proven platforms like the DR and DRZ in FI versions. Of course, Yamaha's WR250R is pretty peppy for a dualsport-tuned 250 and the aftermarket for that bike is very robust.

I think the bigger gap in the market is for genuinely dirt capable middleweight twins. That's what I think is so exciting about a possible XT700Z, if it weighs in under 450 Lbs then there really won't be anything else on the market like it. Of course if it weighs in closer to 500 Lbs, it will be a complete waste of everyone's time. Bikes with 18/21 wheels, light weight, and smooth twin engines just don't exist in today's market.
Hmm, you may well be right about the Honda patent stuff.

I'd say the Tiger 800 XCX comes pretty close to your description. 17 inch rear wheel and 25 pounds heavier than your limit (well, 432 dry) - although that IS with a 5 gallon factory tank - but other than that... but I definitely see your point: the XCX is all I can think of off the top of my head, and it would be nice to have more options in that class. Here's to hoping the Japanese will start filling niches, haha :)
 

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I like big bore thumpers for a adventuring style bike. They offer all the power you can NEED in a LIGHT weight simple to work on package.

Honestly if I were able to afford the time and money for a round he world trip. I'd do so on a DR650. There capable enuff for even a beginner on any thing that can be passed of as a road and even more so for some one with a bit of experience. Pluse there very easy to work on. Cheap to run and easily/affordable upgraded to suite any needs. And that single with stock gearing runs down the road at 110km/hr just fine and pretty smoothly to boot. When I had my 08 I tried to build it into something it wasn't (a trail bike) so I traded it for my TW.

But as a adventure tourer I think the big DR is ideal. If it were updated maybe with fuel injection and maybe a 6speed I feel it be just about perfect.
 
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