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Discussion Starter #1
When riding a motorcycle and initiating a turn, you actually start the turn in the opposite direction. To turn left for instance you push forward on your left handlebar and pull back on your right one. Once in the turn normal steering logic returns. What actually is happening is that you need to lean in the direction of the turn you will be making and the countersteering accomplishes that. We all do this many times a day, but probably most riders aren't even aware they are doing it. It's just like other things we do on the TW or other bikes that we don't even think about consciously(i.e. for me not noticing the TW clutch engagement point until there was a discussion about how far out it was).
 
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Something you learn when you first learn to ride a bicycle as a kid (non training wheels). I only first learned I was actually doing it sometime in my 30s :)

On the friction zone, easy fix. Its something I really didnt like when I took my first ride on the 06, and really hate when Im off road.

Theres a perch the cable sheath goes through, the one on the engine right before it gets to the pivot arm. Loosen both jamnuts and start moving it to the right, towards the pivot arm. Each adjustment requires an adjustment of the clutch lever freeplay also. The further you move it towards the pivot arm (to the right) the sooner the clutch starts engaging when you start to let go of the clutch lever. Careful, you can go to far to the point the clutch doesnt fully release. I got to that point then backed up and went the other way a bit (to the left) until I was sure the clutch would fully release.

Friction zone is where it should be now :) Havent done it on my 09 yet.
 

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I am having the hardest time wrapping my head around this. I purchased the Proficient Motorcycling book and read their explanation. I've done web searches too. But for some reason, this is not making sense in my world at all. Why would you turn the wrong direction to go the opposite way? How does this work? It's the one thing that seems absolutely backwards, even though I know it must be correct or I wouldn't be hearing so much about it...
 

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I am having the hardest time wrapping my head around this. I purchased the Proficient Motorcycling book and read their explanation. I've done web searches too. But for some reason, this is not making sense in my world at all. Why would you turn the wrong direction to go the opposite way? How does this work? It's the one thing that seems absolutely backwards, even though I know it must be correct or I wouldn't be hearing so much about it...
Inorite!? I grew up riding, then took 30 years to get back on. When I went to ask about the requirements to be licensed, they gave me a book. I got to that part and just went ...huh? It's one of those things you just do, but when you see it written down it just looks so wrong. So don't worry about the words, don't think about it, just do it. You got this!
 

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Inorite!? I grew up riding, then took 30 years to get back on. When I went to ask about the requirements to be licensed, they gave me a book. I got to that part and just went ...huh? It's one of those things you just do, but when you see it written down it just looks so wrong. So don't worry about the words, don't think about it, just do it. You got this!
Yeap! The only time your mind makes mental sense of the words that describe counter steering is in a power slide or skidding with the tail out; just like sliding in a car. During normal riding turns it just isn't noticeable it's so slight.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Yeap! The only time your mind makes mental sense of the words that describe counter steering is in a power slide or skidding with the tail out; just like sliding in a car. During normal riding turns it just isn't noticeable it's so slight.
Actually Little Brute the actions of 4 wheels in a skid and counterstreering on 2 wheels is a very different phenomena.
 
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Yeap! The only time your mind makes mental sense of the words that describe counter steering is in a power slide or skidding with the tail out; just like sliding in a car. During normal riding turns it just isn't noticeable it's so slight.
is that like when you're driving a regular vehicle, and u start fishtailing and u countersteer to pull yourself out of it? I don't think im doing this turning my bike?
 

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Actually Little Brute the actions of 4 wheels in a skid and counterstreering on 2 wheels is a very different phenomena.
Not for counter steering, right? I'm an old TT and Flat Track racer. When the tails out you damn well better have the front wheel in the oposite direction of the turn. Just saying...

Please explain oh might one :notworthy:
 
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is that like when you're driving a regular vehicle, and u start fishtailing and u countersteer to pull yourself out of it? I don't think im doing this turning my bike?
You're over thinking it. Just lean in and turn, the "ever so slight" counter steer that occurs shortly thereafter isn't even noticeable. I think a couple others stated it well, "Ignore it", unless your rear end comes out; then counter steer in the traditional sense.

Hope that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Now, back to business...............the turn left to go right thing, and....turn right to go left thing...is really NOT turning the handlbars....it is more a slight lean or pressure on the bars, to make the bike go the opposite direction. Secondly, this works almost ZERO for off-road riding, which is what you are learning to do now.

Well TWlight, that slight lean you mention is a function of just what I stated with the pressures on the bars. It is unnoticeable only because our neuronal balance and imputs don't signal to us on a conscious level what we are doing. We are doing more than you think, and just to test this out over the last month or so on the twisty tertiary roads I travel I have forced myself to consciously be aware of my handlebar actions. It is weird but I think if you really try it on a road you will be surprised at how much movement you actually do make in a significant turn. As for Offroad I will differ to your opinion.
 
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MudBug, I think GTG mean to say...Ignore it ! (those Canucks spell things differently than us Yanks, and much differently than you Texans) ;)

BUT, he is 100 % right...again...darn it. :p

The book, Proficient Motorcycling....is that the one written by David Hough ? If so, it is a good book, but David Hough is very cerebral, and he is a VERY experienced rider, and...of course he lives right here in the best state in the union...Washington State, where we have the best Apples, the best Dressed TW200 Riders....and we don't mind riding in the rain :D

Now, back to business...............the turn left to go right thing, and....turn right to go left thing...is really NOT turning the handlbars....it is more a slight lean or pressure on the bars, to make the bike go the opposite direction. Secondly, this works almost ZERO for off-road riding, which is what you are learning to do now. I use it 99 % of the time......oops....99.314159 % of the time...when I am riding on the street. But off-road riding is more follwing a awkward trail, over some rocks, across a stream, etc., so the philosophy of what you read in the books........IGNORE IT !
yep, that's the one. it came very highly recommended from another forum member. I figured it would be different though. As in, tell me the basis of riding. To be honest, I didn't get that far into it. I did read and reread the section on countersteering though. As far as the rest of it goes, it was a very disturbing book. The first section ended with driver A's helmeted head being ripped from his body. (yikes!!!) So, I skipped to the next section, and then the next section, and so on. Needless to say, 2 wks later my hubby was trying to coerce me into getting back on my bike just to ride around the yard. So, I decided this book was not for me. (He was ready to burn it. lol) If anyone else wants to give it at spin, i'd be glad to pass it on though.
As far as countersteering goes, I think seeing it in action will definitely make more sense to me. And I'm very happy to know its not something I should be practicing offroad.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hi Mudbug: Offroad you will be traveling in rougher terrain at slower speeds than on pavement. However, whether you like it or not when you are on a road and you make any turn at all you will be countersteering to start. However, you don't need to fret a lot because if you have ever ridden any 2 wheel anything, a bike, you will know subconsciously what to do. It is the magic of the brain.
 
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It's one of those things you just do, but when you see it written down it just looks so wrong. So don't worry about the words, don't think about it, just do it. You got this!
Perfect explanation - just follow your instincts and "go with the flow" - if it "feels right" just do it ..............
 

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(caution...qwerty alert):D.....given my 45 years of riding since the age of 16, and given my documented...verified...and certified 1.9 million miles on motorcycles
:toothy4: first of all, that warning was hilarious!
regarding the rest, I am HIGHLY impressed...and a little envious at this point. talk about a lifetime full of adventures... WOW!!! Seems like everytime I log on to this forum, I learn another super cool fact about you. :smileinbox:
 

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Little Miss Mandy MudBug.....save that David Hough book for another 20 years, and then you can better appreciate and understand where David is coming from. David Hough is more of a accomplished writer, than he is an accomplished rider. I run into him every-so-often on one of the Ferries crossing the Puget Sound. Nice guy...a tiny bit full of himself, but then again he says the same thing about me. He has offered to writer a book about my life, more than once, but I always figured that no one would want to read about my life, and if they did, I would write it myself. David is one of those that gets more into speaking about riding, than actually experiencing it first hand for himself.

Nuff' said....just keep the book, and 20 years from now it "may" be good reading.
I'd read one about your life in a heartbeat. everything I've read about you so far has been interesting. I can't imagine a book about u being any less captivating...
 

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Interesting thread.
I still don't think I do the counter steer to initiate a turn. I just lean and turn slightly into the corner.
Neither does my son or daughter.
I can see the logic and physics of it on a larger bike, but as hard as I try the slight pressure on the opposite bar, it just don't feel right.
The only time I know I am counter steering is when the back tire is trying to pass me.
 
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The only time I know I am counter steering is when the back tire is trying to pass me.
You say that like it’s a bad thing …….

Just slam your heel into the ground and kick her up straight again – (keep the gas on, or you’ll get a hell of a wriggle out of her) ……….
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Interesting thread.
I still don't think I do the counter steer to initiate a turn. I just lean and turn slightly into the corner.
Neither does my son or daughter.
I can see the logic and physics of it on a larger bike, but as hard as I try the slight pressure on the opposite bar, it just don't feel right.
The only time I know I am counter steering is when the back tire is trying to pass me.
Well ejfranz, you are not putting pressure on the opposite bar, if turning left, you are pushing the left bar forward, and if turning right you are in effect pushing the right bar forward which turns the wheel initially to the left and leans the bike to the right because of centrifugal forces from a straight plane. Once the bike has leaned your track tends to be where you point it.
 
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