[chisleu]

Hello gents,



I have been looking for a dual sport bike for a little while now when I came across this (in searching for information to make a honda big wheel street legal, of all things. haha)



I've fallen in love, but as most internet romances, I might change my mind when I meet the lady in waiting.



The closest dealership I can find is 300 miles round trip. The thing is, I'm 320lbs and 6'5". I'm not a fatty, but I'm a big big guy and I'm worried this won't get me into the 60mph range even with the gear change (14 front or 47/45 rear seems common?)



I have to be capable of 60mph to be safe on the roads here. No interstate travel or anything, but it's a 55 where I need 60 to hold the right lane without inciting road rage.



Is this possible? I only ask because I'll be forced to use the gasoline engine for a year or so while I compile all the parts needed to convert it to electric. Once I'm on electric power, I'll be in the 0-60 in roughly 4-5 seconds and 80mph top speed range no problem. Plus it will have enough torque to flip over from a stand still. hehe.



It doesn't seem that anyone has done an electric conversion before. I'm expecting that an extended fork with a hub motor pushing the same size tire is doable.



Now for the questions:



1) Can I get up to 60mph with the stock engine given my 320lb weight.

2) Given I will want some handlebars or spacers, and perhaps even custom peg positioning/shifter relocation, should this bike be relatively comfortable as a medium speed cruiser?

3) What is the width of the rear sway arm?

4) What size is the rear rim?



Thanks a ton! Really appreciate this site! Love the videos (especially the speedometer video showing the modified engine accel, and the guy with the 720p chest mount camera showing his commute!!!)

 

[biglefti]

60 MPH will be no problem for you downwind, downhill, and even maybe on the flat. It won't happen uphill, or into the wind. Also, I would say that at your height, the bike may seem a little small. I am only 5'10" and it seems a little small to me, but I really like that on some of the rocky trails I ride here in AZ. However, I do notice that an ache develops in my knees when I am riding on the highway due to my old age and the lack of highway bars on the TW. Others will have to give you the dimentions you are asking for as I am off to rehab.

 

[uktw125]

As stated above you will make it to 60 MPH in the right conditions but if you are concerned about maintaining speed for safety sake then I'm sorry but you are probably looking at the wrong bike.



Sorry to sound a killjoy but those are the facts.

 

[chisleu]

Thanks for the input guys! I hit a local dealership today and the wheelbase/seat height is very close to the honda 230 and that bike is very comfortable for me.



I should have mentioned that I live in the coastal region of South Carolina. The most hilling this will see is if I decide to go genicidal on an ant colony in my front yard.



I am looking for a small/light bike because it will be converted to electric drive.

 

[gfletcb]

Thanks for the input guys! I hit a local dealership today and the wheelbase/seat height is very close to the honda 230 and that bike is very comfortable for me.



I should have mentioned that I live in the coastal region of South Carolina. The most hilling this will see is if I decide to go genicidal on an ant colony in my front yard.



I am looking for a small/light bike because it will be converted to electric drive.

Keep us updated on the conversion, regardless of what bike you go with. Sounds interesting!

 

[PalmStateCrawler]

Riding two up makes my weight similar to yours and I find it easy to hit 60. I say go for it and you'll never regret it. I live in columbia and the few hils that I run into can be annoying but they are few and far between. The carb mod i'm doing friday should help out with those rarities. Next time i'm down at the beach i might have to look you up about this electric conversion

 

[lizrdbrth]

1) Yes



2) Yes



3) 12" at the axle ends.



4) 4.50 X 14

 

[sorethumb]

WOT I am hitting 65-67mph. What coastal part of SC? Around here is the same: Speed limit is 55, traffic is 60-65. Mine keeps up just fine. Add me as interested in seeing your electric conversion too. Good luck.

 

[sorethumb]

Riding two up makes my weight similar to yours and I find it easy to hit 60. I say go for it and you'll never regret it. I live in columbia and the few hils that I run into can be annoying but they are few and far between. The carb mod i'm doing friday should help out with those rarities. Next time i'm down at the beach i might have to look you up about this electric conversion

Jdub, what carb mods are you doing?

 

[chisleu]

edit: something stupid happened on my phone.



I live outside of Myrtle Beach.

that fork is too thin for the easy electric conversion. with a custom fork it would be doable but limited to 65mph at 72 volts iirc. if I went with the conventional motor and chain there would be less room for batteries but a 80mph top speed would be easy. it would also be cheaper.



I will share pics and info if it happens, but nothing I would be doing is original really. I would just be drawing ideas from other projects

 

[PalmStateCrawler]

Jdub, what carb mods are you doing?

Regular tuning mod... shimming the needle around .02-.04" depending on what gives the best throttle response and going up to a 130 main. I dont think it will be necessary to drill the slide though.



If you have not properly tuned your carb, this should help. I've heard nothing but good things and I was assured by my dealer it would in no way affect or void the warranty. They also aggreed that it would help with a little more power and throttle response.

http://tw200forum.com/index.php?/topic/647-carb-tuning/page__pid__5023#entry5023

 

[bangkokbonk]

that fork is too thin for the easy electric conversion. with a custom fork it would be doable but limited to 65mph at 72 volts iirc.

If the front fork is two thin, there is a big wheel conversion thread on here someone posted, i think it uses a bw yoke and some custom spacers. The mod allows the rear wheel to be used on the front (not quite that simple). My bike also runs the rear wheel on the front . A search should find the fat wheel conversion thread.

Maybe i misunderstand, the fork is too thin to bear the load?, or the width between the two forks is too narrow to accomodate motor?

I have also seen Tw's where i live using fat upside down forks, but i dont know what it takes to convert, a new yoke i assume? YZ conversions with upside down forks have been discussed on here too.

Good luck. (sorry for being dumb, i guess u mean rear forks, swinging arm.)

upside down forks pic for sale near me!

My link

 

[chisleu]

If the front fork is two thin, there is a big wheel conversion thread on here someone posted, i think it uses a bw yoke and some custom spacers. The mod allows the rear wheel to be used on the front (not quite that simple). My bike also runs the rear wheel on the front . A search should find the fat wheel conversion thread.

Maybe i misunderstand, the fork is too thin to bear the load?, or the width between the two forks is too narrow to accomodate motor?

I have also seen Tw's where i live using fat upside down forks, but i dont know what it takes to convert, a new yoke i assume? YZ conversions with upside down forks have been discussed on here too.

Good luck. (sorry for being dumb, i guess u mean rear forks, swinging arm.)

upside down forks pic for sale near me!

My link

Yes I read your thread as well, but a wider front won't be needed for my build. I dig it though! Reminds me of a Harley Davidson Forty Eight.



Yes I was speaking of the rear swing arm. I'm newish to motorcycles so forgive my misterminology!

It seems it would work with the commercially available 10KW hub motor, but would only land around 60mph top speed. I believe I would rather move to a belt to replace the chain, and belt drive a conventional motor, which would allow for 80-90 mph top speed (although I wouldn't be ever, ever getting that fast), but when cruising at 55-65 the motor would be happier. If I could "gear" it for 70mph top speed, that could be cool as well, and it would add a touch more low end provided I would actually be limited at the batteries. On electrics, if I understand it correctly, you can pump more torque out of the motor by using the controller to lower it's internal resistance so the batteries can give more juice. Typically, the speed controller's job is to limit it so as not to over work either the motor or batteries, but with sufficient batteries and a high quality motor, I could pump out some insane wheelie-pulling torque and still keep a top speed > 70mph.



Goal for electric conversion would be:

70 MPH top speed, fantastic acceleration, Batteries not wider than the stock engine, 100 mile range cruising at 55. the faster you go and the more acceleration, the less the range, but if I can get 30 miles to the beach, 20 biles around the beach, and 30 miles home and not be scared about running out of juice, I'll be very pleased!!! Plus the cost of electricity + battery replacement + motor maintainence is so much rediculously lower than gasoline alone, it's fantastic. It really does pay for itself quickly. Plus I figure this is the kind of bike to do it to. This isn't something I'm going to want to drive to somewhere like TN or FL (or even Columbia, SC! haha) This would be for in and around town, and maybe a trip to the beach for fun, which is exactly where plug-in electrics thrive!

 

[bangkokbonk]

Yes I was speaking of the rear swing arm. I'm newish to motorcycles so forgive my misterminology!

Me too i relised after i had typed reply so added reply anyway...



Sounds like it could be a soloution to the much talked about Bigger engine swop that nobody has realy accomplised, aside fromm 225 engines. Realy interesting, especialy the acceleration possibilities. Brushless motor and Lipo technology seems to be moving quite fast too.

I think the TW could be quite an ugly beast without a tank though....could always fill it with beer and ice for long rides!!!

 

[chisleu]

Me too i relised after i had typed reply so added reply anyway...



Sounds like it could be a soloution to the much talked about Bigger engine swop that nobody has realy accomplised, aside fromm 225 engines. Realy interesting, especialy the acceleration possibilities. Brushless motor and Lipo technology seems to be moving quite fast too.

I think the TW could be quite an ugly beast without a tank though....could always fill it with beer and ice for long rides!!!

LOL. Yeah.



I plan to have ducted covers over the entirety of the electronics and batteries. It certainly won't look like a TW200 anymore, but it won't be a bare frame design.



I've been conversing with the guys from the hub motor company and he has assured me over 65mph top speed capability, regenerative braking (and a rear disc to boot) plus I won't have to deal with using would-be battery space with a separate motor. Unfortunately it adds a ton of weight (I'm not certain, but I think it's around 65lbs) to the rear fork. That's a ton of weight to put back there and it would certainly affect handling, especially offroad.



Fortunately I've not even bought the bike yet, so I've got a while to ponder my options!

The Mars ME1003 is a good option and only 35lbs. I've emailed to get a real weight on the hub wheel.

 

[qwerty]

At your weight keep the stock sprockets, wrap on a ringed chain, stick a mild cam and springs in the engine, and properly jet the carb. 60mph would be easy.



If you want to make 60 miles at 60mph and 20 miles through beach sand, you'll be disappointed. Maybe, just maybe, you could eek out that kind of range with commercial lithium ion batteries, a high efficiency motor, and top-line controller. Be careful selecting any lithium ion technology. Ever seen what happens to a lithium-polymer when the containment membrane ruptures from heat, impact, or abrsion? Such batteries offer a nice scale touch to remote control airplane crashes in the form of flames and smoke. It's just a matter of time until some hypermiler wraps his electromobile around a tree and blows up half a city block.



Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)would be my choice for safety reasons, and I'd simply add more as necessary for range and current. Also, LiFePO4 cells do not loose capacity over time nearly as quickly as lithium ion and lithium polymer do. I don't mean self discharge, I mean lower energy density when charged.



There are many new battery technologies, but most are extremely expensive. Lithium Thionyl Chloride batteries have about 5 times the energy density of lithium ion types, but the discharge rate may not be sufficient for your throttle intended play. NASA uses this type, so if you can get some sucker taxpayers to buy your batteries, you're good!

 

[chisleu]

At your weight keep the stock sprockets, wrap on a ringed chain, stick a mild cam and springs in the engine, and properly jet the carb. 60mph would be easy.



If you want to make 60 miles at 60mph and 20 miles through beach sand, you'll be disappointed. Maybe, just maybe, you could eek out that kind of range with commercial lithium ion batteries, a high efficiency motor, and top-line controller. Be careful selecting any lithium ion technology. Ever seen what happens to a lithium-polymer when the containment membrane ruptures from heat, impact, or abrsion? Such batteries offer a nice scale touch to remote control airplane crashes in the form of flames and smoke. It's just a matter of time until some hypermiler wraps his electromobile around a tree and blows up half a city block.



Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)would be my choice for safety reasons, and I'd simply add more as necessary for range and current. Also, LiFePO4 cells do not loose capacity over time nearly as quickly as lithium ion and lithium polymer do. I don't mean self discharge, I mean lower energy density when charged.



There are many new battery technologies, but most are extremely expensive. Lithium Thionyl Chloride batteries have about 5 times the energy density of lithium ion types, but the discharge rate may not be sufficient for your throttle intended play. NASA uses this type, so if you can get some sucker taxpayers to buy your batteries, you're good!

Yes I'll be using Lifepo4's, and I won't be driving on sand. I just meant putting around "The Strip"(tm), eatting dinner, etc. Not "offroading". So ~30 miles at 55-60, ~20 miles at 25-35, and ~30 miles at 55-60. I plan to battery up to make that kind of range happen.



If I go the hub motor route, offroading might be out of the question so I plan to enjoy it while I'm gas powered!

It might be a deciding factor against the hub motor.



The hub motor is 45-55lbs counting the rim (maybe 10?) and the disk braking setup (maybe another 10?)



So it's probably 30-35lbs of extra weight. Not a game changer in my opinion. I won't be doing anything close to ramping this thing. I also won't be doing hard off roading, mostly on-road driving or light dirt roads/trails.