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Discussion Starter #1
After the hunt for cheap O-ring chain thread I got on the phone to Yamaha and made this discovery which warranted a new thread. Any experience with these?



My Yamaha dealer mate can give me one for the new old T Dub for = $100 which would have worked out at $114 last week but the rand weakened. Including new sprockets its going to be $160.25 which is an expensive service but the technology seems convincing.



The latest DID VX X-Ring chain is grey in colour and built to the same specifications as the proffessional O-Ring chain but now these are built using the fantastic X-Rings for better lubrication giving longer chain life.






Half the Power Loss

(Compared with Normal O-Ring)

D.I.D’s PATENTED X-Ring construction reduces friction by twisting between the side plates instead of being squashed. Normal O-Rings and other makers’ modified O-Rings have squashed points that increase friction. The twisting action of the X-Ring disperses the pressure and minimizes power loss.

X-Ring is a U.S.A. Registered Trademark of D.I.D; Daido Kogyo Co. Ltd. Japan 1.5 to 2 TImes Longer Wear Resistance

(Compared with Normal O-Ring)

The X-Ring’s four contact points greatly increase its sealing performance. This keeps the dirt out and the lubrication in much better than any other O-Ring. X-Rings have the greatest wear resistance of any other type of O-Ring or Non-O-Ring chain.







 

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I've been happy with DID chains for many years. If they have a new one that will last longer under the unrelenting power of the Dub...Great.
 

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X-rings aren't new, but may be new to the 428 market (well, might be new to the U.S. market as I think they're available over seas). But don't ignore the standard o-ring!! I'd love to see some actual numbers on power losses. -0.001hp is technically a loss, but would you notice the difference? I'd venture to say the average TW'er experiences a greater loss from changing environmental factors (temp, humidity, pressure) than switching from standard to o-ring. Don't get too caught up in THEIR marketing.



Secondly, the links only twist a few degrees about the o-rings as it wraps around the gear, its not continuously spinning about the o-ring. The loss from o-rings should only be from the few wrapped around the gear. All others are in straight chain section between the gears (not spinning but stationary).
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The general dealer has the o ring for $12.50 less, that's 12.5% less. If the DiD claims of double the life of the old o ring are true, then it's worth buying the new technology. It would be good to see some independent trials.
 

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I have been looking for a 428 x-ring here in the states for quite some time. I will probably end up just buying the o-ring and give up my search unless someone else has found a reputable pplace to buy one from. Either way, i'm still trying to decide whether to stick with the 14-50 set up or go for the 14-47 when I get my new chain. Decisions, decisions...
 

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Sidewinder a company that makes chains and sprockets came out with a new chain design using O Ring technology.



You might find their video(s) ranging from interesting to entertaining.



They produce some fascinating products and have a large racing and aerospace following.



LINK



Note: I'm not promoting them, though I have bought from them time to time and just passed by their website about the same time this thread appeared ….So thought I would share the link.



Mike
 

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Tdub wears brand new chain and sprockets. Perhaps we'll be privy to some actual data rather than hype when those need to be replaced.
 

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I called DID today and they said 428 x-ring has been redesigned as the VX. Apparently they used to be VM.

I talked to Patrick at Lytle and he told me they just started stocking them. They may offer cut to length in a couple weeks or so if you require that kind of thing.

I'm due for a 15/50 change so I'll have to test the new technology.

Tesile Strength: 7420 lb.
 

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7420 pounds is a stout 428 chain, more than 2000 pounds more than the SROZ I'm currently using and I've been quite satisfied with in the past. Comparable to some of the cheaper 520 chains, so I'm rethinking the 520 chain and sprocket upgrades for the upcoming stroker build.
 

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Interesting discussion... good info...



So which chain configuration is best for the TW?
 

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Interesting discussion... good info...



So which chain configuration is best for the TW?


Most people get the DID 428 O-Ring chain 122 links. That is what I replaced my stock chain with.
 

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Most people get the DID 428 O-Ring chain 122 links. That is what I replaced my stock chain with.


Thanks Bryan... filed away under things to get... when I need a new chain...



What's a decent price on one?
 

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Im almost due for a chain and i do want a chain thats priced right but also last a long time. Cause im hell on em. I truly put my tw thru the test as it was made for.
 

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I'm going to be the minimalist old man in this discussion, but I just want to point out that regular heavy duty chains can be purchased from JC Whitney for $14, which assuming they only last four or five thousand miles will still provide 20,000 miles of riding for around the cost of an 0 ring. Of course they also require the labor to change and maintain, but I merely want to assure new riders that any good chain will do the job and stress failures are extremely rare. The same can be said for oil...There has been much discussion in this forum about synthetics versus mineral etc, , but again I want to assure new riders that any good oil -changed regularly- will do the job. No doubt modern oils are superior to those used in my dirt bikes from the 70's, when we never had any oil related failures. In fact, the drain plug from my first Honda trail 90 fell off ( dealer related mistake...), so unbeknown to me I drove around until the engine stopped-partially seized up. I pushed it home and put in a new plug, filled the crankcase and the engine started and ran fine ever after. These are tough little machines if properly maintained so if you Are a new rider, don't be intimidated by all the info...Follow the owners manual and you'll be fine
 

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I'm going to be the minimalist old man in this discussion, but I just want to point out that regular heavy duty chains can be purchased from JC Whitney for $14, which assuming they only last four or five thousand miles will still provide 20,000 miles of riding for around the cost of an 0 ring. Of course they also require the labor to change and maintain, but I merely want to assure new riders that any good chain will do the job and stress failures are extremely rare. The same can be said for oil...There has been much discussion in this forum about synthetics versus mineral etc, , but again I want to assure new riders that any good oil -changed regularly- will do the job. No doubt modern oils are superior to those used in my dirt bikes from the 70's, when we never had any oil related failures. In fact, the drain plug from my first Honda trail 90 fell off ( dealer related mistake...), so unbeknown to me I drove around until the engine stopped-partially seized up. I pushed it home and put in a new plug, filled the crankcase and the engine started and ran fine ever after. These are tough little machines if properly maintained so if you Are a new rider, don't be intimidated by all the info...Follow the owners manual and you'll be fine




Typical old wife reasoning. About all you wrote that makes sense is an open chain requires much more maintenance time and budget than an o-ring.



Due to the TW's unusual ouboard countershaft support bearing a simple sprocket and chain change isn't so simple. Engine oil and a side cover gasket can easily cost more than a $14 chain. Every time the chain wears out, the sprockets will wear out to fit, so add in $30+ dollars for sprockets for every worn out chain. Don't forget the locks on the wheel sprocket nuts that also wear and need to be replaced every second or third chain and sprocket swap, at about $10 per set. All of a sudden, your second $14 chain costs more than a ringed chain, and the issue of wear and tear on the three seals involved has yet to be addressed. It's simple math.



As for the notion any modern oil will do, you're dead wrong on three counts. 1) The old API oil classifications are no longer supercessional. SN does not necessarily do everything SM did and then some. Beginning with the SL rating, the majority of oils on the market do not posses the ability to adequately protect TW engines and clutches. 2) Low polluting oils lack the extreme pressure additives to protect the cam and followers in normal operation. Contemporary cars and trucks use rollers on the cam lobes to reduce parasitic friction and improve fuel economy, rendering the use of such additives obsolete. 3) Fuel saving oils contain additives to improve lubricity, which reduces parasitic friction and improves fuel economy, and such additives build up in the friction material in the clutch plates causing slippage, which often leads to overheating and glazing. The past couple years have seen the transition of diesel and commercial oils to similar low polluting and high efficiency formulations as the oils for gasoline engines, for the same reasons--fuel efficiency standards promoted engine development that requires different lubrication characteristics. Clearly, modern auto and diesel oils are different than the olden days, better for their intended uses, but can actually fail to provide what our 1960s technology engines need in an oil.



Unless you keep up with the constantly changing oil formulations on the shelves in North America, it is wise to run an oil blended specifically for 4-stroke motorcycles with wet clutches. Any such oil will get the job done, but a high quality ester-based synthetic will get the job done better, sort of like comparing Aaron Rodgers to your local high school's quarterback.
 

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Typical old wife reasoning. About all you wrote that makes sense is an open chain requires much more maintenance time and budget than an o-ring.



Due to the TW's unusual ouboard countershaft support bearing a simple sprocket and chain change isn't so simple. Engine oil and a side cover gasket can easily cost more than a $14 chain. Every time the chain wears out, the sprockets will wear out to fit, so add in $30+ dollars for sprockets for every worn out chain. Don't forget the locks on the wheel sprocket nuts that also wear and need to be replaced every second or third chain and sprocket swap, at about $10 per set. All of a sudden, your second $14 chain costs more than a ringed chain, and the issue of wear and tear on the three seals involved has yet to be addressed. It's simple math.



As for the notion any modern oil will do, you're dead wrong on three counts. 1) The old API oil classifications are no longer supercessional. SN does not necessarily do everything SM did and then some. Beginning with the SL rating, the majority of oils on the market do not posses the ability to adequately protect TW engines and clutches. 2) Low polluting oils lack the extreme pressure additives to protect the cam and followers in normal operation. Contemporary cars and trucks use rollers on the cam lobes to reduce parasitic friction and improve fuel economy, rendering the use of such additives obsolete. 3) Fuel saving oils contain additives to improve lubricity, which reduces parasitic friction and improves fuel economy, and such additives build up in the friction material in the clutch plates causing slippage, which often leads to overheating and glazing. The past couple years have seen the transition of diesel and commercial oils to similar low polluting and high efficiency formulations as the oils for gasoline engines, for the same reasons--fuel efficiency standards promoted engine development that requires different lubrication characteristics. Clearly, modern auto and diesel oils are different than the olden days, better for their intended uses, but can actually fail to provide what our 1960s technology engines need in an oil.



Unless you keep up with the constantly changing oil formulations on the shelves in North America, it is wise to run an oil blended specifically for 4-stroke motorcycles with wet clutches. Any such oil will get the job done, but a high quality ester-based synthetic will get the job done better, sort of like comparing Aaron Rodgers to your local high school's quarterback.
Well, I am not as familiar with TW's as you are Qwerty, and was not considering the sprocket challenges, so that's a good point. Depends on how much one rides I guess so that if one is strapped for cash changing things every couple years might be preferable to some people. Nor am I obsessed about oils...I just know that I've used regular oils in all my bikes and the last one ran 50,000 miles with no trouble, changed every 1000-1,500 miles. There are non-fuel saving oils available that will work fine in a bulletproof engine like the Yamaha...Like I said, I do regular maintenance but am no mechanic and prefer just to ride...Keep up the interesting posts though!
 
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