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Discussion Starter #1
Let me start by saying that I greatly appreciate this forum and the help that I have received over the years from its members (not only with regard to the TW and motorcycles in general, but with other unrelated issues as well), who have become like family to me. Perhaps I have lost my mind and am missing something, overlooking some simple minor detail that changes this all, but I do not believe that to be the case. You would think that in this day and age, and in the United States of America, nonetheless, that something as ridiculous, atrocious, frightening, and simply pathetic as this, would never happen. But, believe it or not, it has. I will NEVER, EVER produce my signature to certify a FALSE statement. Fine me, deny me rights and citizenship, and my freedom, torture me...it will NOT happen. Granted, these things are not a concern currently or with this particular issue, but it is the principle of the matter that is cause for great concern, in my opinion. Some would see what I am about to tell you as a simple inconvenience, a technicality not to be worried about, if they even notice it in the first place, likely not even having read any of the relevant text. It would be a gross understatement to say that I am outraged and view this as a VERY, VERY serious problem, one that in my mind DEMANDS accountability and CORRECTION (which, sadly, will most likely never happen)! Now, I will explain the problem itself.



I received in the mail a standard DMV renewal notice for my driver license, which expires in July of this year. On the form, my address is incorrect. The address printed on the form is my previous address. The form states that "To renew [my] license [am] required to bring this completed notice and [my] license to DMV." A portion of the text just before the signature line on the bottom of the front side of the form reads as follows: "I have read and agree to all the certifications on the back of this form." A portion of the text of the fifth certification on the back of the form reads as follows: "The mailing address shown is valid, existing, and accurate. I agree to accept service of process at this mailing address..." I went to the DMV and informed the clerk of this contradiction; the address shown on the form is not valid since I do not live at that address, and therefore cannot accept service of process at that address, and that I therefore cannot sign the form. After explaining this, I politely asked if the DMV could update my address in their system and then print me a new renewal notice form showing my current residence address, so that I could honestly agree to all of the certifications and sign the form. As it is, the address shown on the form is NOT valid (regardless of whether the DMV updates my address prior to my signing of THIS form), and as such I will not present my signature certifying that it IS valid! The clerk told me that the DMV would not print me a new form, period, and that I could update my address with the DMV at that time, and then "simply" sign the renewal notice to renew my license.



I have considered simply hand writing a note on the front of the form. This is what I have come up with:



**NOTE: I, [my first and last name] ([my signature...]_______________), certify that the following handwritten address, written on this form by me on [the date on which the note is written], replaces "the mailing address shown" referred to by the fifth certification on the reverse side of this form (my signature below, on the bottom of this form, which certifies that "I have read and agree to all certifications on the back of this form" has been made only after taking this note into account): [my current, valid, existing, accurate residence address].



What do you think? Will this legally change the nature of my signature in connection with the certifications on the other side of the form? If I have a notary sign the form as well, as a witness to the note and my signature? I suppose these are questions for a lawyer, but I thought I would run it by here first to see what you people think. I also do not wish to spend the money and time for a legal consultation. Call me stupid, a whiner, whatever you want (if you don't agree with me); I've heard it before. Any positive input will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
 

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File a change of address, then file for renewal.



The DMV has been so criminal for so long that they assume we're all just like them.
 

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KJ, sorry I can't help you with this but it sounds like you have been mysteriously transported to the UK and your DMV is now called the DVLA.

Us UK citizens are held accountable for our DVLA's mistakes and fined for any slight irregularity or oversight on their part. It's just a revenue raiser for the government.
 

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Send your letter to the local paper where your D.M.V. is located. This may start a s*it storm but I feel it's someting that has to be done. People need to know whats going on not just on the national level but also on the state and local as well. Also your post was very well written and that counts for alot when others read it. Good Luck to you and give them HELL!!
 

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Seems to me you might have been supposed to fill a change of address when you moved, and didn't. Therefore, the FUBAR is of your own doing. Every state in which I have been licensed requires drivers to inform the state when they change addresses. Of course, nobody ever does, and this is what happens. In Tennessee. In California.



Yup. Looks like you screwed the pooch. I'm guessing the fines for not registering your whereabouts with Big Brother are extreme in California. You might even get some time in the hooch with Carlos, the gay prison guard.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Seems to me you might have been supposed to fill a change of address when you moved, and didn't. Therefore, the FUBAR is of your own doing. Every state in which I have been licensed requires drivers to inform the state when they change addresses. Of course, nobody ever does, and this is what happens. In Tennessee. In California.



Yup. Looks like you screwed the pooch. I'm guessing the fines for not registering your whereabouts with Big Brother are extreme in California. You might even get some time in the hooch with Carlos, the gay prison guard.


I did file a change of address when I moved. The DMV still sent this and my jury summons to the old address, and clearly did not update it in their system. Whether I had filed the change of address or not DOES NOT change the fact that there is a serious problem with the certification that the address printed on the form is valid and accurate. If what is printed on the form is not valid, people should not be asked to certify that it is valid by signing the form, no matter the circumstances surrounding the inaccuracy.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Xracer: Good idea. I just might do this.



Someone really needs to rewrite the certification to take old or incorrect addresses printed on the forms into account. Something like "The mailing address shown on this form is current, valid and accurate, or if it is not, has already been replaced in the DMV system by the correct address." Anyway it seems that my note will have to suffice to get my license renewed. If they don't like the note I write on the form, they can print me a new form
 

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Do they still have the cute liddle signs advising you that if you pizz them off by pointing out the absurdity of either them personally or the DMV systen in general, you risk being arrested for making a terrorist threat?



I heard they were gunna take them down, cuz no one gave a rip.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Do they still have the cute liddle signs advising you that if you pizz them off by pointing out the absurdity of either them personally or the DMV systen in general, you risk being arrested for making a terrorist threat?



I heard they were gunna take them down, cuz no one gave a rip.


I don't remember seeing any signs, but seriously, the world is spiraling downward and quickly. People let "small things" like this slip (because it's easier than dealing with them properly), and then those responsible for the errors, etc. can get away with something worse, and then something even worse after that. And before you know it, the slippery slope has been ridden all the way down to a dark, dirty torture dungeon, where the DMV drops you off to be "dealt with" because you politely notified them of an error on their part or disagreed with some of their methods/policies/procedures... This is why seemingly minor issues such as this are in fact extremely important and must be firmly addressed immediately by all affected parties. Now I'm not some conspiracy theorist nutcase, and I don't think the DMV or any branch of the U.S. government is anywhere near torturing people for something as minor as this. But in a few hundred years if they are never reprimanded for their misconduct and abuse of power?



http://www.turnto23.com/news/13430314/detail.html?subid=22100581&qs=1;bp=t



I don't necessarily even agree with this man, but what he did is certainly no excuse to flag him as a potential terrorist threat (any more so than anyone else should be).
 

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The DMV are just a bunch of paper pushers they just want ot get it over with. I would contact the Department of Transportaion for your state. They will answer you and get to the bottom of things. DMV are little fish they answer to the Department of Transportaion.Before I moved back to the U.S I contacted the Departmentof Transportation. I explained I have never possesed a U.S drivers license. I have been serving overseas as a DOD civilian and driving 21 years under a military issue SOFA (Status Of Forces Agreement) license. The Department of Transportation replied that my state recognizes military issue license and I would not be required to take any test written or road. I went to the DMV with my SOFA license and letter from the DOT. The person at the DMV totally blew me off saying we would only recognize licenses issued from germany (Ramstein Air Force Base) or Canada(there are no bases in Canada)I laughed and said oh yeah you show me where there is a base in Canada and where are the directives. She was obviously talking out of her ass. I said get your supervisor. They call him up and fax my letter and license. The supervisor calls back and said why are you wasting my time he has a letter from the DOT issue the license. Goes to show you DMV clerks know nothing and are just fucking off. So go and contact them.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the advice RisingSun, I will contact CADOT.
 

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KJ and others. As one gets older, there is no guarantee that you become wiser. In my opinion, getting older affords you more opportunity to deal with lifes ups and downs (good & bad).



I have found that the system (any) generally has lots of momentum (good/bad ?). There seems to be LOTS of energy moving it in the direction it is going, and I have found very few people willing to stand steadfast in it's path.



In my opinion, the expression "pick your battles" may apply to your situation. The system does not care, it is neither you nor I, it is simply a bunch of 'us' that don't give a ship about any "you or I's".



I hold in high regard; honor, respect, integrity and 'truth'. I have found that as absolute as the definition of those qualities are in my mind, they can be dramatically different in the mind of another. For some, the difinition depends on many variables (loss, cost, time.....).



I think I understand your frustration. I believe most of us have been 'there'. I would be inclined to say, "pick your battle". Most will be all uphill with minimal support. A loss will likely leave you weary and disillusioned. Gerry
 

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Discussion Starter #15
With respect, Mrgizmow, I do see your point, but I see virtually every such battle as "my battle". You are certainly correct about what you say with regard to the "us, you's and I's". However there are still "them", and I believe "they" must always be held accountable, especially when it is claimed that they serve/represent us. I do understand that there will be little to no support for a "cause" such as this. However, if the "pick your battles" philosophy is followed too frequently, the battles that end up chosen down the line (after things are allowed to progress unchecked, to the proverbial point of no return, or closer to it) will often end up being impossible to win. I've lost before, but will not stand idly by when I have been wronged.
 

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Well, worse that can happen is you end up losing your license for failure to report an address change, pay a stiff fine and court costs, and do 11/29 in the pokey.
 

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Fear not, I will be staging a coup shortly.



And once I've installed myself as Sublime Benevolent Dicatator I'll appoint you to the position of Minister of Concubine Procurement.



On your lunch hour you can go down to the dungeon and waterboard any member of any previous administration who you feel might be the source of our ills. I think you'll find it pasrticularly satisying to suspend them upside down and watch the change fall outta THEIR pockets.



Gotta go now. They're coming to untie my sleeves.



SBD
 

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Fear not, I will be staging a coup shortly.



And once I've installed myself as Sublime Benevolent Dicatator I'll appoint you to the position of Minister of Concubine Procurement.



On your lunch hour you can go down to the dungeon and waterboard any member of any previous administration who you feel might be the source of our ills. I think you'll find it pasrticularly satisying to suspend them upside down and watch the change fall outta THEIR pockets.



Gotta go now. They're coming to untie my sleeves.



SBD
 

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KJ, I had a similar experience here in NC a few years back, when I purchased my boat. I took the notarized title for the trailer to my local DMV office to get a tag and get the title transfered. I had to fill out an application for title that had several questions I had to answer as well as several boxes to check, and you then signed this, acknowledging that you could be prosecuted for fraud for answering anything falsely. One of the questions was; "to your knowledge, has this vehicle ever been flooded"? I checked this box before signing it and handed it to the clerk. She then told me that I didn't want to do that or I would end up with a branded title. I then reminded her that I was not going to sign my name to a false document under penalty of law. And I honestly believed that this vehicle had been flooded many times. I told her "why, just yesterday, I personally observed this vehicle totally SUBMERGED in a lake!!

She was right. I now have a salvage title for my boat trailer, branded a a "flood" vehicle.
 
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