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Discussion Starter #1
First, please do not berate me for asking about carb tuning, I read as much as I could. Currently, I am in the freezing cold in CO (over 5600ft). The bike takes about 45 sec to warm up with choke on, then is a bit moody till completely warm. No surging in the throttle or anything. But I feel like the bike is down on power... I struggle to do even 55MPH
But that could be because of the altitude! But I noticed when I am wrapping out a gear all the way, it goes from a hum to a buzzy type of noise. Like a clacky noise. I want to say like rocks in the crankcase but it is NOT that bad!! Same noise, just verrrrry less severe. I've heard knock and ping in car engines (all V8s) and I am worried I can't hear it in an engine this small. I know engines change pitch through the RPM rang, but I'm not sure if this is the correct noise. I bought the bike from TX and it ran great there and, again, it's been fantastic here! Just I'm really worried that I need to tune the carb or rejet. When I move back to Galveston, TX (0ft, literally) I am expecting to rejet because it will be summer and 0ft... So anyways, what are the thoughts and opinions on tuning/rejetting with these conditions? Both CO and TX? I am a firm believer in tuning engines slightly rich for safety and I am very particular about doing that with an air cooled engine! Thanks so much, really loving being a TW owner and community memeber! Y'all are too awesome!



Kyle
 

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What does your plug say after running wot for a minute or two? You may need to go down a size on your main.
 

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Hey Kyle, there are a bunch of people on here that are willing to help each other. First, everybody is gonna want more information if you know it. Year of your bike, mileage, which carb it has, 49 state or Cali model, has it been modified already, which main jet is in it, has the needle been shimmed, how many turns out is you pilot screw, and finally, what is the avg weight of the rider and gear? If all is stock, then knowing the year and if it is a 49 state model will give everyone a baseline. (They changed carburetors in 2001, and California models came with a different main jet stock than the others)



Noises? Well, this 196cc is notoriously noisy anyway. Checking/adjusting the valves and the cam chain adjuster are the first and easiest things to check related to noise. The age and mileage of the bike would further indicate the likelihood that you would need to investigate more serious mechanical problems.



Typically, people highly recommend tuning the carbs as they are set very lean stock. Even for your altitude and winter weather, you would probably benefit from tuning. Before doing so, consider a few other things. 1. Gas...winter mix gas sucks. If you can, try to find ethanol free gas (http://pure-gas.org/), and also try the mid or super grades. Our TWs were designed to run on regular, but research it and you'll see that bumping the grade up has helped people. 2. Spark plug...check it, read it, replace it. Try the Iridium version. It has also smoothed things out for some. 3. Vacuum leaks...make sure that there are none around the airbox and intake boots, etc. 4. Clean and learn the carb first...you will get the best info from the "Carb Tuning" sticky thread. Learn from Qwerty and the others and go through the steps to get it right...no shortcuts. As Qwerty says, "So many variables affect mixture one simply cannot go by what somebody else does. Never forget that a carb is almost always slightly out of tune." That being said, people seem to find a balance with how the bike runs at three different elevation ranges: sea-level to 4000ft, 4000ft-7000ft, 7000ft and above. So, if you do decide to take on the jetting/tuning, you'll want to go through the process in each of your elevation ranges to find the settings that work for you. 1 for CO, 1 for TX. The larger jets and more needle height (richer) are better at sea-level...leaner as you go up. Good luck, and let us know your experiences through the process.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I was going to quote, but both of you asked very valid questions. Shame on me for not mentioning year and such! It is a 2006, non-CA model. 58xx miles and I *just* put a plug in. Maybe 100 miles. Zero modifications. Rider and gear is probably 150 or 160. I don't weigh much, but I drink more in the winter
I have yet to check valve lash, I need to check it but I am waiting to get gaskets for the job. I am also running a new oil filter and Mobil 4T. Never checked cam chain tension, but I know the adjustment screw is external, so if I can do that with no gaskets, I absolutely will! I read, read again, and then re-read the carb tuning but I took the message 'don't fix it if it ain't broke' haha! And like I said, it runs fantastic! But I'd like a more rich tune just to increase longevity and keep temps down. I will grab an iridium plug tomorrow! I am very familiar with small engine carbs, but it's all needle-bearing on two-strokes. But I feel like it's not much different than the carb on my TW. I checked ALL vacuum hoses and all are 9/10 in condition, so there are no vacuum leaks that I am aware of. I am aware that CO and TX will require different tunes, but how rich do I need to go at sea level with 100+ temps? I'm worried that I won't be rich enough and risk overheating.



Thanks so much, I'd like to be able to provide as much info to makes this as easy as possible! I'm engine savvy so don't be afraid to be technical, I'd like to be as thorough as possible.



Kyle
 

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Okay, it sounds like you're pretty with it. Hopefully you've grabbed the service manual and the 2001+ addition as downloads. I would start with the valve adjustment. It's a pretty quick and easy job, and if they are out they can be a source of poor performance as well as noise. The cam adjuster will be the new automatic model that has no manual adjustment. It can be noisy also, but it doesn't mean it's bad. If you wanted to by a gasket for it, all you have to do is remove it, and check that it does not push in. It automatically moves out as slack develops in the cam chain, then locks into that position. If it can be pushed back in...it's bad and needs to be replaced. If it's bad it can allow slack in the chain causing timing issues, noise, etc.



2006 non-cali will have the newer CV carb from Teikei. I would clean it first. Take it apart, learn it, see what number is stamped on your main jet. Order a float bowl gasket, a needle valve kit, and the pilot screw kit. I, too, am in the "if it's running fantastic, then don't dick with it!" camp, but if you're pretty competent, you don't rely on the bike as your primary transportation, and you want the experience...then go ahead and play. Make note of how it is set up stock though, what main jet it has, and exactly how much the pilot screw is out from a lightly seated position. You can farkle things up really fast and wished you'd left it alone, but if you know how to get back, you can have confidence to try to dial it in better.



The stock main jet is probably a 125 or 126. If you are really into tuning your carb, just order a 128, 130, and 132. The 128 is probably going to be your CO jet, the 130 is a good sea-level jet, and the 132 can be a good choice for sea-level at your +100 degree temps. Since they are about $6/ea, you may even want to order a 125. If you have a 126 stock, then you will have the whole range to try out. Plus, if you are running too rich now, or if you run really high in CO, you'll have the leaner jet to try. When you go to raise your needle you'll need some shims or washers, as they'll be referred to on the forum. Alot of users have run the stainless McMaster 1/8" shims with a .010" thickness to to dial it in with since raising the needle between .020"-.050" seems to be the sweet spot. Those cost about $10-15 for a pack of 25. The cheaper route is going to the hardware or hobby store for 2.5mm flat washers. They are usually around .020"-.025" in thickness, and are around $0.10/ea. I can't recommend strongly enough to take it on with patience and follow Qwerty's directions in the carb tuning thread to be successful.



I'll also quote Qwerty from this thread for good info, "At normal altitudes, say sea level to 4000 feet, a #130 main, 2 flat washers pounded a bit thin, and 2.5 turns on the pilot is sweet, unless the air temp is really hot, in which case a #132, one flat washer under the needle, and 2.5 turns on the pilot screw will be a bit rich and will serve to lower engine temps a bit. If you want best fuel efficiency go with a #128, 2 flat washers under the needle, and 2.25 turns on the pilot screw. Higher than 4000 feet or so go with a #128, 1 flat washers under the needle, and 2 turns on the pilot screw. Above 7000 feet, #126 main, 1 washer, 1.75 turns on the pilot screw. That all works on Tdub, most of the time. YMMV."
 

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I could not agree more with this one for people in FL at sea level, "At normal altitudes, say sea level to 4000 feet, a #130 main, 2 flat washers pounded a bit thin, and 2.5 turns on the pilot is sweet, unless the air temp is really hot, in which case a #132"



Currently I am at #130 main and 5 McMaster 1/8" shims with a .010 "thickness". I am not at the point of riding the bike enough to know how it reacts at this jetting. I have no problems whatsoever, but I might start removing one shim at a time very slowy, just to make sure I am not running to rich.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I went to pull the plug today to put in an iridium. Ordered gaskets to check valve lash last night! And some more to clean up oil leaks... Ha! But anywho, I made a very stupid decision. I gapped the plug I just put in the same as the previous owner did. Well, it was gapped at 1.13mm.... New iridium is gapped correctly at about .7m. But, here are some pictures of how the plug looks after much running! Has roughly 200 miles now. I did do a lot of riding this weekend. The snow made it fun
Any thoughts? Looks very normal to me.





 

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Your plug looks normal to me. Couple months ago I changed my sparkplug to the Iridium plug just like you. I've kept my old plug to keep as a spare to carry with me just in case. Anyway, my plug looks just about like yours. I had just about 7,000 miles on this plug before I changed it and it was running just fine, just thought it was time for a new plug.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Your plug looks normal to me. Couple months ago I changed my sparkplug to the Iridium plug just like you. I've kept my old plug to keep as a spare to carry with me just in case. Anyway, my plug looks just about like yours. I had just about 7,000 miles on this plug before I changed it and it was running just fine, just thought it was time for a new plug.
Yeah, part of getting a new vehicle for me and running through the basics! One plug makes me not feel bad about spending the extra cash on an iridium. Seems to start a bit easier and smoothed the idle. Less hiccups. I believe that was because it was gapped WAY too big! Either way, happier
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I figured I would revive this thread instead of start a new, but coming back to CO, I have tried to rejet the TW again and I feel like I'm going nowhere. When I got here, I misread the numbers on the jets and accidentally put in a 127.5 instead of the 122.5. These are ProCycle numbers, so the 127.5 would be a 130.5 Yamaha and the 122.5 a 125.5 Yamaha. Well, what bums me out, is that I noticed *no* difference in power when going form 127.5 to 122.5 :/ Am I still just overly rich at 6k feet? I'd really like to squeeze more power out of it. All advice appreciated before I throw an even leaner jet in! Ha!

EDIT: Stock pilot (great starting characteristics), 2 shims under needle (part-throttle feels healthy enough)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
That plug was when I was on stock jetting. I may just put it back to stock? No idea...
 

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I figured I would revive this thread instead of start a new, but coming back to CO, I have tried to rejet the TW again and I feel like I'm going nowhere.
EDIT: Stock pilot (great starting characteristics), 2 shims under needle (part-throttle feels healthy enough)
Hmmn, on a 2006, stock main would be a 126, my 2010 is the same, I'm at 6,000 and go up to 9,500, and the bike runs perfectly, with just a little WOT hesitation in fifth as I approach 10,000, although with significant loss of power.

I wonder if the conversion from ProCycle is off. A WOT plug check should confirm.....go a couple miles at WOT in fifth and cut.

I suspect that you may just be unwilling to accept that a 14 HP engine at Sea Level will only produce about 11 HP at 6,000. My bike can't go up a gentle incline in fifth at that altitude! I'm planning on putting in a 122 (Yamaha) if I get to do a trip to the San Juans in a couple of weeks. That should be OK to 12,000.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
They might be off!! I took my plug out today and it looks perfect! But I've been running this plug since day 2. So, stock jetting 6000 feet, rejet sea level, and rejet 6000 feet. In that order. I'm about to throw the stock jet in, I just want to make sure it is compatible with the ProCycle needle. I think my pilot needs another 1/4 turn to be just perfect. Today it gave me some trouble when it was cold. Only for a few seconds though.
 

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Another Qwerty quote:

Yup. #114 or #125 or #126, depending on year and market, no washers under the needle, 1.5 turns out.



I have a spare air filter cover with holes in it and duct tape over the holes. Above 11,000 feet it helps to pull the duct tape.
From http://tw200forum.com/forum/technical-help/2450-carb-jetting-ride-colorado-mountains.html

I haven't really experimented with carb jets and adjustments - so there might be a better adjustment but this advice was easy to follow.

This works well for me, but I haven't gone much above 10000 feet. As mentioned earlier altitude really affects HP. Fortunately I haven't gone below 5000 feet to ever experience the difference, so I don't know what I'm missing. :)
 

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Hello every one.

First than all, I felt that it was better to post my question in this thread, since you seems to be talking exactly about what I wonder. I just register in this forum, but I have been reading here from quite a while.

After a long wait for the right conditions, I finally got the opportunity to purchase a TW200 – a brand new 2013 model. Actually, I have not picked it up yet – long few days of wait for dealer preparation and license.

Here in Panama, there is a great trail that goes from Boquete (3000 ft) to the top of Barú Volcano (11.000 ft) in a relatively short trip of only 16 miles.

From what I am reading, the bike in stock from should do fine on such a trip, and if I wanted to mess up with the bike’s jetting is to make it richer (#130 or so) for my regular ride at sea level.

How can I be sure that the bike I get here in Panamá comes with the #126 main jet?

That would be my first experience riding in high altitude. What else should I consider in preparation?

I have also read that the stock gearing is fine for my 220 lbs load. Do I need to consider re-gearing? Is the first speed slow enough for a rocky trail?

Thanks!
 
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