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Electric starter problems

15858 Views 35 Replies 5 Participants Last post by n2o2diver, Nov 4, 2012

zj_hummel

Discussion Starter · Oct 29, 2012

Hello there, I bought a 1990 TW200 two months ago. I took it apart to powder coat the frame and then put all new plastics on it. So here is the issue: I put the key in the ignition then turn it to "ON" and you can hear the starter turn over for a second. Next I will press the starter button and here rrrrrrrrrrrreeeerrrr. I was thinking it was the starter relay so I bypassed it and then I heard the same thing; rrrrreeeerrrrrr. The electric starter system was not turning over the motor. I figured it must be the starter clutch, so $94 and 2 hours later it was fixed. NOT the case. I kick started the bike on Saturday and road it 75 miles thru the mountains--wow, it was a great ride. I got to my destination and let the bike sit for 2hrs. I put the key in, turned it on, and then I heard the starter run nonstop, but it never turned over the motor. Is it the starter? The relay? Or did I mess something up when I put the bike back together? Hope you can help. Thanks

21 - 36 of 36 Posts

zj_hummel

Discussion Starter · #21 · Nov 2, 2012

[quote name='zj_hummel' date='01 November 2012 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1351825195' post='60251']

I will try these steps out to night. Thanks for all the information you have gave me. Thank again

[/quote

YOUR ?: Try this for us....turn the gas on, turn the key to ON but leave the stop switch to OFF. What happens? ANS: not much starter spins

YOUR ?: No starter spin? ANS: Starter still spin

YOUR ?: Keeping the key to ON turn the stop switch to ON, does it start spinning? ANS: YES

YOUR ?: Then turn the stop switch to OFF again, stop spinning? ANS: Still spinning

n2o2diver

· #22 · Nov 2, 2012

You definitely have some wires crossed somewhere. You are going to have to go through the schematics and work it out or take it to someone who can. Trying to troubleshoot something like this through messages could take a long time. Ptmg definitely has you going in the right direction.

zj_hummel

Discussion Starter · #23 · Nov 2, 2012

YOUR ?: The R/W (red with white stripe leaving the starter relay) wire is grounding out somewhere. To check this, use a multimeter with the diode/continuity setting and put one probe on the R/W wire right at the starter relay and the other probe on the negative terminal on the battery. Do you have continuity?

ANS: I used my multimeter to check for "diode" a number 1 showed up on the multimeter display. I put the black lead on the ( - ) side of my battery & the red on the ( + ) side of my relay. The #1 on the multimeter display disappeared. So do I have a short?

zj_hummel

Discussion Starter · #24 · Nov 2, 2012

Love all the help on are tw forum! Very cool

n2o2diver

· #25 · Nov 2, 2012

Current should flow through a diode in one direction and not the other. You may have the diode installed backwards. Try flipping it around. That right there could be the problem.

pgilles

· #26 · Nov 2, 2012

zj_hummel said:
YOUR ?: The R/W (red with white stripe leaving the starter relay) wire is grounding out somewhere. To check this, use a multimeter with the diode/continuity setting and put one probe on the R/W wire right at the starter relay and the other probe on the negative terminal on the battery. Do you have continuity?

ANS: I used my multimeter to check for "diode" a number 1 showed up on the multimeter display. I put the black lead on the ( - ) side of my battery & the red on the ( + ) side of my relay. The #1 on the multimeter display disappeared. So do I have a short?

Put the red probe on the little red wire that has a white stripe....NOT the large red wire. Confirm you put it on the little red/white wire. I say this because you said you put the red on the (+) side of your relay....that leads me to believe you put it on the large red cable running from the battery/to the starter.

There's no diode we're measuring, we're just using that setting to see if the wire is shorted to ground.

An alternative to using the diode setting is putting the multimeter on the ohm/resistance setting and measuring how much resistance it has between those two points (put the multimeter on the lowest ohm setting (~20 or 200)). A number will display or not. If it a number displays, you have a short.

pgilles

· #27 · Nov 2, 2012

Your relay should look something like this. Don't measure at the copper terminals with the thread on them, those are the large red wires. We need to check the red/white wire that goes into the plug that fits in the socket on the relay (where those 4 little terminals are on the back of the relay)...

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pgilles

· #28 · Nov 2, 2012

The R/W wire circled in yellow is the wire we want to measure continuity to the ground terminal on your battery. When the key is ON and stop switch is on RUN and you press the start button this wire gets grounded and allows the starter to spin. When you release the starter button this wire is no longer grounded therefore no longer allowing the starter to spin. Since you have a constant-spin issue happening, I believe this wire is grounding somewhere it shouldn't.

The bold wires below are the heavy gauge wire running from the battery to the starter relay and from the relay to the starter. They connect to the copper threaded terminals on the starter relay. These, again, are not what we want when measuring continuity.

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pgilles

· #29 · Nov 2, 2012

I'm on a roll here haha sorry! But if you can snap pictures of your relay and the plug that goes into it, you could email me them and I'll see if I see anything!

lizrdbrth

· #30 · Nov 2, 2012

I suggest you take a deep breathe, stop throwing parts at the problem and go after it logically.

Unless you inadvertently miswired the bike when you re-assembled it, you'll most likely find that your problem is within the starter button housing. Since this is a key "on" issue and the starter relay is engaging that means all your safety switches, kill switch and the cutout relay are also engaging and the L/W wire's side of the cicuit is doing its job. Other than the starter button itself there is nowhere else remaining to complete the circuit. If the red wire were shorted to ground you'd be popping fuses.

The way the starter circuit is wired the only other way for your problem to occur would be for the R/W and L/W wires to have become shorted together. The only way for that to occur is if they melted together through the insulation. Highly unlikely on an early bike with a 10A main fuse (very easy to do on a later bike with a 20A fuse), but possible if you really leaned on the button when the starter relay coil was shorted.

Check the starter button first. If that's not the problem follow the red wire through the harness looking for sections of wire which may have melted insulation. If you find none, it's time to check every connector in the harness and see where you went wrong when you rewired the bike, particularly the relays. A single wire on the wrong relay terminal will keep you from ever sorting out your problem and there is no way any of us will be able to sort it out for you.

The failure of the starter to engage when it's spinning is a seperate issue having nothing to do with the continuous spinning issue.

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pgilles

· #31 · Nov 2, 2012

lizrdbrth said:
...

The way the starter circuit is wired the only other way for your problem to occur would be for the R/W and L/W wires to have become shorted together. The only way for that to occur is if they melted together through the insulation. Highly unlikely on an early bike with a 10A main fuse (very easy to do on a later bike with a 20A fuse), but possible if you really leaned on the button when the starter relay coil was shorted.

...

Even if the R/W and L/W shorted together then flipping the stop switch from RUN to OFF would stop the starter. But he tried that in post #21 and said it kept spinning. The stop switch in the RUN position is providing ground to the circuit. My bet is the R/W wire is shorted against the frame and providing that ground. Little insulation rubbed off the R/W wire and is resting against the frame/weld/bolt/etc. or the R/W wire came off the starter button and is resting on the handlebar.

zj_hummel

Discussion Starter · #32 · Nov 3, 2012

Hope this helps out. Just took a few pics of the wiring on the bike. Click the link below to see! Here is my # if any one would like to talk it over with me. Thanks (515)556-7865 ask for Ben any time is good

http://s1353.beta.photobucket.com/user/Zj_hummel/library/TW200 wiring

pgilles

· #33 · Nov 3, 2012

The picture of your start button, see that red wire going into it? Get out your multimeter, put it on the diode setting, put one probe on that wire (pierce the insulation if you have to) and the other probe on your neg battery terminal. What does the multimeter say?

zj_hummel

Discussion Starter · #34 · Nov 3, 2012

I just took the starter wiring harness apart. Then i turn the ignition to on, starter still spins. Here's a pic of that.

http://s1353.beta.photobucket.com/user/Zj_hummel/library/Tw200 starter wire

zj_hummel

Discussion Starter · #35 · Nov 3, 2012

Well, I feel like a jackass!!!! My starter motor lead ( the + on the starter )was running up to the ( - )on my battery. Then I hooked the ground to the starter relay. So that was my issue two very wrong wires that are hooked up backwards. I got them turned around & the TW200 is back live again. If these two wires get hooked up backwards it will make the starter turn in reverse & always getting 1.9 volts. THANKS for all your help!!!!

n2o2diver

· #36 · Nov 4, 2012

Glad you got it sorted out.

Now we have all learned something too.

21 - 36 of 36 Posts

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