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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, stand by for some weirdness.

I have a 92 TW200 that is retired from the forest service -- it spent a lot of time sitting in a ranger cabin before I got it. I put a new battery, plug, oil, etc and tried to get it running but it had a bent valve. I took it to the shop. Mx replaced timing chain, both valves and even rebuilt the carb for me.
My mechanic says.

"It starts first kick, but I couldn't get that battery to take a charge - you might want to replace it."

Also says -- "the CDI box had some extra wires running out of it that shouldn't be there. I couldn't get it to run right until I disconnected them. Someone has messed with your wires. "

He offered to investigate, but since it runs I figured I'd track it down on my own. I'm offroad only at this point anyway and was itching to ride.

I get home, put the battery on the charger overnight. In the morning it has a good charge. I put the key in - nothing. No lights, Nada.

Hmmmmm... that was a brand new battery and the starter, lights turn signal, etc all worked before I brought it in to the mechanic.

I put the kickstand up and kick it - starts first kick. Runs like a top. I ride it around the fields, move through all the gears. It is a champ.

But even when it is running -- no lights, no speedo, nothing.

Before I go digging out wires, I have a few questions.

1) Will this bike run without the battery?
2) Why would anyone attach extra wires to a CDI? Any idea of what sort of mod that would be?
3) Does the speedo need electricity to run?

Any light shed on this matter (pun intended) will be greatly appreciated.

-Ed
 
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Okay, stand by for some weirdness.

I have a 92 TW200 that is retired from the forest service -- it spent a lot of time sitting in a ranger cabin before I got it. I put a new battery, plug, oil, etc and tried to get it running but it had a bent valve. I took it to the shop. Mx replaced timing chain, both valves and even rebuilt the carb for me.
My mechanic says.

"It starts first kick, but I couldn't get that battery to take a charge - you might want to replace it."

Also says -- "the CDI box had some extra wires running out of it that shouldn't be there. I couldn't get it to run right until I disconnected them. Someone has messed with your wires. "

He offered to investigate, but since it runs I figured I'd track it down on my own. I'm offroad only at this point anyway and was itching to ride.

I get home, put the battery on the charger overnight. In the morning it has a good charge. I put the key in - nothing. No lights, Nada.

Hmmmmm... that was a brand new battery and the starter, lights turn signal, etc all worked before I brought it in to the mechanic.

I put the kickstand up and kick it - starts first kick. Runs like a top. I ride it around the fields, move through all the gears. It is a champ.

But even when it is running -- no lights, no speedo, nothing.

Before I go digging out wires, I have a few questions.

1) Will this bike run without the battery?
2) Why would anyone attach extra wires to a CDI? Any idea of what sort of mod that would be?
3) Does the speedo need electricity to run?

Any light shed on this matter (pun intended) will be greatly appreciated.

-Ed
1. Yes, even a dead one; but it can be a bomb under your butt... but should you decide to go without one at all; it will need a 4,700 UF / 35-50 Volt capacitor run between the two battery leads.
2. Without looking or owning a newer model TW; it may just have an extra wire for some other application or also fit different bikes; other members could verify or deny this?...
3. No, except for the light inside.

Hope this helps a bit... :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So is there a master fuse that might be blown that runs all the accessories? I'm working this week and can't take the bike apart right now. I'm just trying to get some ideas about how to track this gremlin down.
It seems weird to me that I'd have a running bike with none of the electrical signs of life (lights, blinkers, etc).

If my dead battery is working like a cap at this point, I should still get a little light when the bike is running, right? Unless maybe I blew all the fuses somehow?

I am glad that the bike runs without a battery. My early Honda CBs would all do that and it was great security. My Vstar 650 had no kicker and left me stranded with a dead battery a couple of times and it was very frustrating. That said, I likes me some electric start.

Anyway. I now have a running bike, with no electrics. Any suggestions on where I should start investigating?
 

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I'd suggest looking at a wiring schematic to get a good handle on where all the spaghetti goes to & what it does from all the points to & from. Then the detective work will be much easier. I believe there may be some posted in the forum already in the Maint./mod threads. One for your specific year model/gen. would be the ticket.
...and don't forget the test light & dvom. Again, the ohm meter is our friend. Ohmmmmmmmmmmm.......
 

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That was the first thing I was going to mention last night, but then read it runs. My older bike has one fuse, not really sure on the newer ones. So, unless someone pipes in, there is a different problem than just a fuse.
 

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Also says -- "the CDI box had some extra wires running out of it that shouldn't be there. I couldn't get it to run right until I disconnected them. Someone has messed with your wires. "

2) Why would anyone attach extra wires to a CDI? Any idea of what sort of mod that would be?

-Ed
A few questions...

What were the 'extra' wires going to?

How many/ what color wires are there now?[assuming the 'extras' were removed]
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Okay, I've been reading the other posts for any clue. I went down the blackout lights rabbit hole and got some good ideas. Seems there are two circuits one for the lights and starter and another for the CDI/Ignition -- so I already know which circuit has the problem. I have a ground wire that could be responsible for the whole thing -- attaches to the frame near the starter and looks like it was burned through somehow.

Still the fuse thing is driving me crazy. Can't find it. Could the previous owner have bypassed it? Can anyone post a picture of an older fuse block? I'm just not finding it - even following the wiring diagram.
 
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Fuses on the 2001+ model are under the right side cover, here;


Click on picture to enlarge;
TW200 fuses.jpg

There are two here, 20 amperes each under the clear/white cover thingys.

I would think the pre 2001 fuses would be about the same place.
 

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Fuse on a ’92 will be under the seat – non of your fancy two fuse stuff either – just a good old one shot special


Capture.JPG



As a rule of thumb, no matter what the model, the fuse will be found close to the battery – so follow the positive lead until you find it. The PO may have moved it, modified it, added to it – or removed / by-passed it …….

As to your CDI unit having too many wires coming out of it, there are either six or eight – the picture on the left shows the component – the picture on the right where each wire goes to (component number 3) - (right click, open in new tab for the bigger pictures)


cdi8.JPG . cdi.JPG


These pictures are from a 1988 to 2000 manual I have – here’s a link to the other manuals on this site (be sure you’re looking at the right one) - http://tw200forum.com/forum/technical-write-ups/70-service-repair-manuals.html


Although the manuals may seem like the definitive answer to life, the Universe and everything, be aware that your particular bike may not follow the rules – it may be modified, or maybe it was just a case of Yamaha doing things differently on that run of bikes – it will be up to you to determine this by following the “clues” from what I’ve just posted.

Bit like finding your fuse really – the manual says “under the seat” – the reality might be under the right hand side panel, but it will be close to the battery in any event.

If you can post a pic of the CDI wiring it would help – but expect much head scratching along the way ….. ;)
 

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Fuse on a ’92 will be under the seat – non of your fancy two fuse stuff either – just a good old one shot special


View attachment 30005



As a rule of thumb, no matter what the model, the fuse will be found close to the battery – so follow the positive lead until you find it. The PO may have moved it, modified it, added to it – or removed / by-passed it …….

As to your CDI unit having too many wires coming out of it, there are either six or eight – the picture on the left shows the component – the picture on the right where each wire goes to (component number 3) - (right click, open in new tab for the bigger pictures)


View attachment 30006 . View attachment 30007


These pictures are from a 1988 to 2000 manual I have – here’s a link to the other manuals on this site (be sure you’re looking at the right one) - http://tw200forum.com/forum/technical-write-ups/70-service-repair-manuals.html


Although the manuals may seem like the definitive answer to life, the Universe and everything, be aware that your particular bike may not follow the rules – it may be modified, or maybe it was just a case of Yamaha doing things differently on that run of bikes – it will be up to you to determine this by following the “clues” from what I’ve just posted.

Bit like finding your fuse really – the manual says “under the seat” – the reality might be under the right hand side panel, but it will be close to the battery in any event.

If you can post a pic of the CDI wiring it would help – but expect much head scratching along the way ….. ;)
How about a pic of the burned ground? Have you tried probing it to see if it has continuity from one side of the burned area to the other side of the burned area across the burned spot? voltmeter?
 
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Don't recall the exact model year but in Moab this year a Mid-90s TW we worked on had it's old fashioned glass cylinder 20 amp main fuse in a little holder under the right side cover perhaps two inches to the rear from post-2001 location. would be right at the top left margin of Devil's Advocate posted picture below: TW200 fuses.jpg
 

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Assuming you found the fuse. I'd be checking the little bulbs as well. Perhaps it's connected to the bent
valve? Overreving is a cause (serious overrevving!) of a bent valve. I have found in the past that overrevving can also
cause excessive voltage thus raising turmoil within the electrical system. Burn't bulbs, fuses and potentially electronic components.
Also look at your grounds, there are multiple. Engine to frame, Bat ray to frame being critical.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Wow, thanks for the offer. TWbers are great. I think I'm getting it nailed down (see post thread)
I'm working this week and next weekend (unfortunately) but Monte is not that far away.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Okay - making serious progress here.
1) Found the fuse -- it didn't exist. Using the wiring diagram I found where it ShOULD be and the previous owners had just taped the two connectors to each other and removed it. Bought a 10 amp blade type and wired it in last night.
2) There is a ground wire near the very front of the frame - from the starter to the frame I think -- that had a hole burned into it - maybe from contact with a hot pipe. I ordered a new wire which should be here next week. Meanwhile, I cleaned and taped it up. Fired it up and TA DA!!! Lights and blinkers are back! Only when the bike is running thus far, but I'll take it.

So as it stands, I have
1) A bike that starts with the second kick (speedo works fine)
2) Lights and blinkers (when the bike is running)
3) No brake light or neutral light (I will check bulbs) and individual circuits
4) No sign of life from the battery -- which is a replacement. I'm wondering if I fried it d/t lack of a fuse+overreving. Putting it on the tester is the next step.
5) Extra and disconnected wires. (see pics) I need to sit down the wiring diagram and figure out what is supposed to be attached where. At this point, I am questioning the previous owners electrical engineering credentials.

This is a pic of the "fuse" - got one wired in now.
13177677_10206396182007701_5703915958709106744_n.jpg

This is the "extra wires out of the CDI" - actually under the seat. Connect the red and puce connectors and it bike runs like crap, disconnect them and it runs great.
13178015_10206396181767695_6785310567216895416_n.jpg

Mystery connector behind the headlight - nothing obvious to attach it to.
13221078_10206396181447687_2673886098908644629_n.jpg

Mystery connector behind headlight #2
13227013_10206396181047677_3723251192217047442_n.jpg
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Whoops? Where did I get it in my head that it is a 10amp? I've got a 15 I'll swap in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ok.
1) Tail light was just a busted bulb. Got that replaced with an LED. It doesn't get brighter when I apply the brakes, but progress.
The sky blue and brown wire under the seat are the neutral switch. Can't find where they are supposed to connect but I'll track it down. I like having a neutral switch.
2) not sure what the spare red wire is under the seat. Unlesssssssssssss - according to the wiring diagram it is part of the fuse circuit (red-fuse-red/white.)
3) The two connectors behind the headlight are for the "clutch switch" and the "front brake switch," however, I have no wires coming out of my levers. Might need the brake switch to get the brake light working. Not sure what a clutch switch does.

Charger on the battery all night -- it reads solid green (which means a charged battery) but still no sign of electrics when the bike is not running. My guess is the battery is OK and I have ground fault in the battery circuit somewhere. Will dig out the multimeter and see what I can find.
 

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The "clutch switch" is another safety cut out, it comes into play when you try to start it in gear - eg - in gear, without pulling the clutch in - no start .....

The headlight won't come on on that model until the engine is running - but everything else should work

You're getting there .......
 
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