TW200 Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So, as many of you know, I just picked up a new TW.





When we loaded it into the truck, the salesperson was adamant about bringing it back at 6-700 miles for the first service.



Do I need to? will it void the warranty? What is so magical that they do? Just want to charge me $200 more?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
They just want to charge you $200 more. Warranty is still good either way. As long as you feel comfortable changing the oil, adjusting the valves, cleaning the air filter, and adjusting the chain, don't waste your money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,493 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: grewen

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
So, as many of you know, I just picked up a new TW.





When we loaded it into the truck, the salesperson was adamant about bringing it back at 6-700 miles for the first service.



Do I need to? will it void the warranty? What is so magical that they do? Just want to charge me $200 more?


I bought mine last spring, and I personally just felt more comfortable knowing that the initial service would be done by an authorized dealership. I figure if something is going to break, it will likely do so in the first few thousand miles, and I just didn't want the hassle of arguing a warranty claim under those circumstances.



I called around and found a Yamaha dealership 50 miles away (versus the closer ones) that would do the 600 mile service for $55 dollars labor (and they even adjusted the carb mixture after test riding it). I upgraded to Yamaha full synthetic 15W50 at the service techs suggestion (and bought an extra quart), so with the oil filter my parts bill was $34. Total was $89. At my request, they also sold me a DID o-ring chain for $70 and installed it for another $10. Grand total, including IL tax and a couple bucks for shop supplies was $179.



Could I have saved myself $65 labor by trying to do it myself?---sure. But I have the peace of mind that everything on the bike was checked-over / then done / and then test-ridden by a Yamaha certified tech with 30 years of full-time experience wrenching on bikes (and I even watched from the doorway, asked a few questions, and learned a few things).



I agree with other posters that the TW is a pretty uncomplicated bike, and with the info available through this forum you could probably do things yourself if you want to. I've given my reasons for my choice. I've also found that some independent cycle repair shops in my immediate area are about $25 per hour cheaper in their labor rates than my closest Yamaha dealers. That might have also been a possibility for me if I had not found the dealer I used (and if I was really on a tight budget). At least a professional shop of some kind might make a warranty claim a little easier than trying to convince Yamaha I had acquired the 'expertise' necessary just by reading stuff off the internet.



Anyway, just my two cents worth on the topic.



Corey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
This makes sense to me. I'm going to break my new TW in somewhat differently than Yamaha suggests, but I plan on getting that first service done by Yamaha techs. And I'll probably do the same things you did and probably for the same reasons. From then on, I'll take responsibility for what needs to be done. But since those first miles are so crucial for the bike's life, I'll trust the pros.



PS: What dealership did you use?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Good advice for me as well. I bought a used 2008, nice to know the service is easy enough to do yourself.



If you feel comfortable with any service, doing it yourself is always nice to save a few $$$$ and that way you know it's done to your specifications
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
This makes sense to me. I'm going to break my new TW in somewhat differently than Yamaha suggests, but I plan on getting that first service done by Yamaha techs. And I'll probably do the same things you did and probably for the same reasons. From then on, I'll take responsibility for what needs to be done. But since those first miles are so crucial for the bike's life, I'll trust the pros.



PS: What dealership did you use?


I live in NW Illinois, and the dealership I used was Gieson Motorsports, in Rock Falls, IL (Sterling / Rock Falls area). http://www.giesonmotorsports.com/default.asp



Corey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
I live in NW Illinois, and the dealership I used was Gieson Motorsports, in Rock Falls, IL (Sterling / Rock Falls area). http://www.giesonmot...com/default.asp



Corey


Just a little side note, I asked the service manager (who was also my tech) about some of the $200 price quotes I had seen by others on this forum. He told me that the TW is such a simple bike to work on that its 600 mile service just falls under their "dirtbike service 50-225cc" labor rate, and he said that even at what little he charged me, they were still making money. He said he would rather try to build a long-term relationship with a customer than to try to just make a quick buck off of you. Sounds like a good business plan to me, and I'll do my best to make him my first choice for service and parts/accessories, as well as recommend him to others as I have here.



Corey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
it is a good idea to service a new vehicle. and the service record is golden.

CHANGE THE OIL and have your service agent fill the spaces in the paper work.

other than that just drive the s&it out of the machine and then complain ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
Maybe others disagree, but if we get treated well at a particular dealership, I think we should post that here. I bought my 2010 TW from the Full Throttle Motorsports here in Lansing (MI). I did some research, found a price in Cycle Trader for this bike, presented this info. to the sales mgr. and got just what I wanted at exactly the price I hoped for. It was about as free from hassles and headaches as it could be. Now, if this endless Michigan winter would fade away...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Dear Mr. Yahamaa

I bought a motorbike from you recently and it runs crap.

I have no idea about the technical bits but the machine

should run seemesely acording to your brochure’s. I have

tried all the gears but most of them have sent me into a

door or someones window.

pls help

Mr A shole

only joking

kind regards

Al
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,664 Posts
I wouldn't wait for 600 miles to change the oil. The stock oil filter is a simple metal screen--easily cleaned. I'd change the oil and clean the screen after the first ride, then again after the first 100 miles, and at 600 and 1200 miles. I'd use a 10W40 dino oil specifically for motorcycles with wet clutches--none of that V-twin crap, and no synthetics. Valvoline Motorcycle 4stroke would be my choice, as it says right on the bottle "SUPERIOR WET CLUTCH PROTECTION". I'd change the oil again at 2000 miles, by which time the engine should be fully broken in, and switch to a 10W40 synthetic specifically for motorcycles with wet clutches--none of that V-twin crap. Mobile Racing 4T is my choice. Castrol also makes a similar synthetic oil for motorcycles with wet clutches, but Castrol is owned by BP, and I've been boycotting BP even before the oil spill in the Gulf.



The reason for the dino oil for break-in is the synthetic is such a good lubricant the engine won't break in. The break-in process is really a controlled amount of engine wear. Once the engine is broken in, use synthetics to slopw wear as much as possible for longer engine life. The reason to avoid the V-twin oils is they are not designed for surviving in a transmission, and will quickly break down due to sheer forces in the transmission. Also, V-twin oils are for hydraulic valve trains, TWs are mechanical. TW valve trains need a little help to avoid premature cam lobe and rocker arm wear. I've seen a lot of such premature wear in similar engines run with car oils that lack the phosporous and potassium that prevent lobe wear.



I know some new bikes and cars come from the factory with synthetics but they are 1) watercooled engines with much better controlled thermal expansion and contraction characteristics, which allows
significantly smoother surfaces of parts that move against each other, which allows C) significantly smaller clearances between parts. Essentially, such engines are machined to such exact tolerances they are already broken in before they are ever started.



As for doing it yourself, the recommended maintenance schedule is in your owner manual, and the instructions are in the shop manual. If you derive peace of mind from paying the dealer, I have no problem with that. If I had the bucks to buy a new bike, I might make the same decision. I'd still do the extra oil changes myself to save money. If you want to pay someone to do the extra changes, do so, doesn't matter as long as they get done. When you do required maintenance yourself, or have it done at an independent shop, you'll need documentation to make a warranty claim later. Receipts for all parts, supplies, and labor are a good start. I would keep a journal describing every time I worked on the bike, right down to checking the air pressure in the tires. I would staple receipts right to the page describing the work done. I would put a chart inside the front cover listing all the factory maintenance intervals, and write the page number for that documentation on the chart, like a table of contents. Then, if there ever is a problem, Yamaha will not be able to argue.



By the way, if you break in a TW using the methods advocated and appropriate for water-cooled crotch rockets, expect it to have a very short life. Best way to break in a TW is offroad in terrain with many curves and elevation changes. Low to moderate RPM at moderate to high throttle settings associated with typical trail riding result in constantly changing thermal characteristics in the engine, which provides a thorough and even break-in. Avoid extremely low or high RPM, sustained high throttle (such as when blasting down a straight road), and sustained speed (such as when cruising down the highway). Keep the engine operating conditions changing constantly, and it will be a good break-in. Also, consider a 132 main jet to help keep engine temperatures down during break-in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
I was always told not to use synthetic on a break in because it does not allow the rings to seat well. Basically it never get's fully broken in. Also I believe the newer T-dub runs on 20W50, or at least mine does and its an 06.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,664 Posts
I was always told not to use synthetic on a break in because it does not allow the rings to seat well. Basically it never get's fully broken in. Also I believe the newer T-dub runs on 20W50, or at least mine does and its an 06.


Depends on the engine, but the TW's old-school technology does need dino oil to break in. I'd change at 20, 100, 600, and 1500 miles, switching to synthetic at 1500. I'd change again at 3000 so it would be easy to remember an oil change due every time the thousands is divisible by 3.



I've made some changes in the oils I use due to major changes in the grading and classification systems. I've alluded to these changes over the past year or so. Here's the low-down:



Only two grading.classification systems are relevant to TWs, and any other Japanese motorcycles with combined sumps, wet clutches, and flat tappet valve trains.



The first of the two grades/classifications that matter are viscosity numbers that are assigned by oil characteristics related to temperature according to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). These SAE grades are critical to proper oil flow properties at specific engine temperatures. Too high a viscosity, oil will not flow adequately when cold. Too low a viscosity, oil will not maintain a protective layer between metal components when hot.



There are 5 critical oil viscosity numbers recommended for the TW.



10Wxx cold start protection down to 14*F (-10*C)

20Wxx cold start protection down to 41*F (5*C)

xxW30 adequate heat protection to 95*F (35*C)

xxW40 adequate heat protection to 113*F (45*C)

xxW50 adeguate heat protection to 122*F (50*C)



10W30 14*F to 96*F -10*C to 35*C

10W40 14*F to 113*F, -10*C to 45*C

10W50 14*F to 122*F, -10*C to 50*C

20W40 41*F to 113*F, 5*C to 45*C

20W50 41*F to 122*F, 5*C to 50*C



Choose a multi-viscosity oil based on the temperature where and when you ride. No straight viscosity oils are appropriate for a TW.



The second vital grade/clssification is determined by the Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (JASO). These grades are critically important to motorcycle oils. JASO T904 relates specifically to appropriate for wet clutches. DO NOT USE ANY OIL NOT MARKED "MEETS OR EXCEEDS JASO MA" or "MEETS OR EXCEEDS JASO MA2" in any motorcycle with a wet clutch. The JASO standard is the only standard that designates compatibility with a wet clutch.



Some of you swear by Rotella diesel oil. Fine and dandy, as long as the version and viscosity you use is Rotella T Triple Protection in 15W40. It is the only Rotella version that is in our viscosity range and that meets JASO specs for wet clutches. None of the 10 other types and viscosities of Rotella meet the viscosity and clutch compatibility requirements. If you choose Rotella, make sure you get the correct version and viscosity.



So far there is no testing standard for the rate of shearing of oil molecules due to compression between gears. New cars and trucks, with their more advanced metalurgy and computerized machining process, are built to much closer tolerances than a TW. Therefore, these newer engines require smaller molecules, exactly the opposite of what a TW needs.



The following is what will mislead motorcyclists in choosing oils:



I know that the older TW owner and shop manuals state that Type SE/SF oils are required. Unfortunately, SE/SF specifications are 40 years old, so no longer valid. These Sx (S is for spark ignition) and Cx (C is for compression ignition) ratings are determined by the American Petroleum Institute (API) and relate to resistance to coking, sludge formation, and high temperature lubricity. In fact, later API classifications limit the amount of additives that protect flat tappet cam lobes and followers. API claims 100% backwards compatibility, but it just isn't so. Supposedly, some less polluting alternatives have been introduced to ensure backwards compatability, but many older engines running these new oils (rated API SM/ILSAC GF-4) have died premature deaths due to cam wear. In fact, this rating system by the API no longer applies to motorcycles at all. API classification can be safely ignored for motorcycles.



The International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) is the new kid on the block concerning oil grading, but they are little more than an API dog-and-pony show. Their standards are focused on new automotive technologies and have absolutely nothing to do with compatibility with motorcycles. Their ratings can be safely ignored.



Synthetic vs. Dino:



Synthetic oil stocks consist of molecules of more consistent size and structure than dino oils. Motorcycles thrive on consistency. Nod to synthetics.



Synthetic oil stocks consist of molecules more able to resist extreme pressure (between the rocker and cam lobe, between the gears in the transmission) without breaking down. Nod to synthetics.



Synthetic oil stocks are not contaminated with micro-components that combine with condensation to form acids--the sole source of acid-forming micro-components is byproducts of combustion. Nod to synthetics.



How much difference does this really make? The factory-recommended oil change interval on the TW is 3000 miles. With dyno oils I noticed clutch dragging, hard shifting, and occasional false neutrals after just a little over 1000 miles, the degradation of performance was due to the oil breaking down from use. With synthetic, no change in clutch or transmission performance for 3000 miles, which means the oil is still doing its job after 3000 miles. I'm too chicken to push intervals back any further than that. Sure, synthetic costs twice as much, but look at the money I save on oil filters, not to mention more ride time and less wrench time. It's a no-brainer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
I just pick mine up at the dealership, I only have to change it once or twice a year so I just use the oil specifically for my bike. 20W50 seems to do the trick on mine because it's stored in a heated garage. I haven't really ridden it this winter so it's really not that big of a deal. The old panhead starts on about the fifth kick with straight fifty weight in her even if it's freezing out. I'm too old to be out playing when it's below freezing anymore. Or just a little bit wiser. Very informative though I'm sure this will help out many others.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
I just pick mine up at the dealership, I only have to change it once or twice a year so I just use the oil specifically for my bike. 20W50 seems to do the trick on mine because it's stored in a heated garage. I haven't really ridden it this winter so it's really not that big of a deal. The old panhead starts on about the fifth kick with straight fifty weight in her even if it's freezing out. I'm too old to be out playing when it's below freezing anymore. Or just a little bit wiser. Very informative though I'm sure this will help out many others.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,516 Posts
Good post regarding oil(s)!.When I bought my TW a few days ago, the dealer told me the TW had "break-in" oil in it....and, do not change the oil until you reach 600 miles.All of the bikes I've had over the years get there first oil change at 100 miles...300 miles...600 miles...1000 miles,then I change about every 1500---2000 miles depending on time the oil spends in the box versus mileage.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top