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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
Riding light tonight. Love my racks!

217085
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
Back from a ride combining high-speed and low-speed stretches, with only 5L of gas on tail rack on the way back.

Maybe something is wrong in the front end. There was no initiation of oscillation, but the feel of it being fragile was there. The wind effect was less than some days.

I don't think it's right that the tire is bumpy at slow speeds. Maybe it translates to oscillation at higher speeds.

I will go on and finish this 6000k maintenance because before I do any further mod, I have to make sure every component that might affect stability is optimal.

Spokes, tire balancing, steering bearings, swingarm, forks... and everything else that was mentioned here.

As far as riding with my panniers goes, I think I got to the point where Ryan says something like: "install the luggage, go ride easy and adapt to the new feel."

I feel something else is wrong because at one point they felt more right. I don't like to say that but I think it was with the Death Wing on. :oops::rolleyes:

Gee I don't see myself with 80% road tires when I hit the trails with my friends on weekends...

In the short term, I'll move the panniers a couple inches forward, and maybe try and strap some half cylindre foam in the front and the back, see how this affects their catch in the wind. Just out of curiosity, for science.
 

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If your tire/tires are bumpy at low speeds you probably have an out of round situation. Get a wheel off the ground and give it a spin to see how round it is. Also check if it is out of balance and always stops with a heavy side down. Church the other wheel next.

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Discussion Starter · #64 · (Edited)
I'll be very busy working on a 1999 that I just bought in order to make it safe to ride, so the 2020 issue will have to be put aside for a bit.

But as it is, after a longer high-speed ride, I observed that when I'm unloaded and with cross front winds, I can feel a bumpiness in the front even at high speeds.

On the way back, with only 10 more pounds of load on my back and the tail, and rear cross-winds, I felt confident enough to ride faster, even though the bumpiness was still there.

Someone weighing 100 more pounds than me will only feel the bumpiness at low speeds.

Si I'm thinking the weight of the panniers were just keeping me from noticing that something was wrong with the front tire.

I will try and figure out what's wrong with the Golden Boy or the install of it, but I'm tempted to put back the Anakee Wild. And balance the thing since I really need the stability because of the nature of the luggage I carry.

Thanks everyone for now for the highly useful inputs.
 

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One thing to think about is the amount of balancing bead put in the tires. It is ok to have a bit too much. But your balance can be way off id too little beads were place in the tires. Each manufacturer has specific amounts for tire volume.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
One thing to think about is the amount of balancing bead put in the tires. It is ok to have a bit too much. But your balance can be way off id too little beads were place in the tires. Each manufacturer has specific amounts for tire volume.
I didn't know that. I just put the whole 1-tire bag in. Maybe the ultra-heavy duty tube asks for more beads then.
 

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I didn't know that. I just put the whole 1-tire bag in. Maybe the ultra-heavy duty tube asks for more beads then.
They usually have charts of tire size that gives the recommended amount of beads or sealant to put in. Which brand and type did you put in your tires? Some types are also specific for motorcycle tires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 · (Edited)
So here's the mindbugger.

I just bought a 1999 with overdue steering bearings.

My man road-tested both my bikes on gravel at high speeds. I'm not into high speeds on gravel at all with my 2021, because the first or second time I took it out, I had this wobble warning on gravel. Ever since then, I stick to low speeds on this kind of road.

So just to make a story short, my man scared the hell out of himself with my 2020 at high speeds on gravel, unloaded (well he loads the bike more than me but that's not supposed to matter). Apparently, my bike is wobbly as hell. It probably was out of the factory.

My 1999 with its worn out Death Wing and over-toasted bearing is a charm to drive on gravel at high speeds. No wobble.

Beats me.

Sounds like I have a geometry issue on my 2020. Like it's trying to wheelie all the time.
 

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Could the wheel be laced offset to the hub or out of true would be interesting if you could swap the wheel assembly off another tw and see if the problem is still there.
 

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Anyone else feels that the more weight you add to the back of the tdub, the more unstable the bike becomes?

I could be considered a feather-weight rider I guess at 115 lbs.

I have a heavy setup of racks and luggage at the back. On the front I am now with a Golden Boy and a ultra-heavy duty tube.

I recently found out that the closer I move to the front of the bike on the seat, the more my front wheel feels plant to the ground. But this seating position is quite uncomfortable in the long run.

Generally, I can't feel comfortable on gravel unless I use that seating position. Pushing hard on the handlebars seems to make me feel more secure as well. But it's an impossible way to do your riding hey...

At high speeds (over 90km/h) I've had enough wobble warnings to become very conscious of my driving.

First one happened when I had a pipe wrench in one of my cases. I loaded the bike with no after-thought and all the heavy stuff may have been on that side. It took strong wind gusts and longitudinal cracks on the asphalt to start the oscillation. Happened again a minute of two right after. I now call this "the pipe wrench effect" 😄

I changed my front tire again, just in case. But it's happening again with the Golden Boy.

I really suspect an imbalance in suspension between the front an the rear.

Thoughts? Stories?

I need the luggage space back there. My bike is my car at this time of year. I don't see how I could add more load to the front. And would it help anyway?
Tank bag, however that may cause the wind to blow up to your face. Otherwise a good idea.
 

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So here's the mindbugger.

I just bought a 1999 with overdue steering bearings.

My man road-tested both my bikes on gravel at high speeds. I'm not into high speeds on gravel at all with my 2021, because the first or second time I took it out, I had this wobble warning on gravel. Ever since then, I stick to low speeds on this kind of road.

So just to make a story short, my man scared the hell out of himself with my 2020 at high speeds on gravel, unloaded (well he loads the bike more than me but that's not supposed to matter). Apparently, my bike is wobbly as hell. It probably was out of the factory.

My 1999 with its worn out Death Wing and over-toasted bearing is a charm to drive on gravel at high speeds. No wobble.

Beats me.

Sounds like I have a geometry issue on my 2020. Like it's trying to wheelie all the time.
That is interesting but i don’t think unprecedented to have them ride differently. I have 2 2006 TW’s. Both are setup identically, literally identically. Same racks, seat, springs, carb tuning, tires, everything. The one my better half rides is a lot more stable at speed than mine is, a lot more. The only thing i can associate it to is manufacturing variations in the bikes themselves. I have tried swapping running components like the wheels, forks, shock etc and no matter what mine still is more sketchy at speed. It always has been and i suspect always will.

As far as your 2020, i wonder if you could try bumping the preload on the shock and see if that make any difference. you could also try raising the forks in the tree like 5mm. That would definitely get more weight on the front wheel.

The only other thing i would look at is the front tire. Maybe you got a bad one? I have experienced that personally with the 244 shinko. I put a new one on my bike a couple years back and it would not balance no matter what i did to it. I ended up returning it and getting another which has been fine.

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Discussion Starter · #72 · (Edited)
Ok :)

After becoming an expert at riding an unstable bike - loaded or not - , I finally did my first change today.

I took out the ultra-heavy duty tube that had beads in it. I never made sure I put the right amount of beads in there. This move was one of the first I made so I figured I'd address it first.

The handling is much better. High speed, turning, slow speed... I did my road test unloaded. I have to ride it some more to come to conclusions about the wobbling, but it's looking better. My man feels it's a different bike too. No wobbling unless he makes it happen intentionally.

The front wheel is still bumpy at all speeds. I ordered a balancing stand and when I get it I'll try balancing the wheel to see if it makes a difference. I have doubts about this tire though.

Something I might end up doing anyway is raising the forks in the tree, if I still feel the front is not grounded enough.

Edit:
This is a good lesson to learn. Going from the Death Wing to a knobby AND changing to a heavy tube AND adding beads AND adding panniers around the same time might have been a bad idea... The intentions were good. Be heavier in the front with a heavier tube to compensate for the rack setup. Put beads inside cause I didn't have a balance stand but wanted to be balanced (obviously that did not do any good), get a knobby to be more secure on gravel...

It cost me an extra tire. I blamed the wobbling on the first knobby I tried and I can see now that the tube might have played a major role...

So after all my next move may be to go back to the Michelin (with the lighter street tube), because I don't remember it being bumpy. I'm guessing that if it's well balanced and not bumpy, handling should be further improved.

But one change at a time... Is it possible to not overthink such a case? 😄

After all these puzzling thoughts I feel like I don't know what "normal" handling should feel like on my bike... all cause of the Death Wing when I come to think of it.

I'll be reading this thread very thoroughly again so I can inspect these other parts you all mentioned that can affect handling, when I spend some time on my bike.
 

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By bouncy do you mean up and down oscillation?

If you i think that's just something some( not all) of the Shinko 244's do. I spent a lot of time chasing that issue on mine and i thought it was an out of round wheel because the tire was brand new. it ended up that it was the tire and i thought i strange since one of mine did it and the other was butter smooth.
 

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You could try breaking the bead and spinning it 180 degree's on the rim and airing it back up... and retesting it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
By bouncy do you mean up and down oscillation?

If you i think that's just something some( not all) of the Shinko 244's do. I spent a lot of time chasing that issue on mine and i thought it was an out of round wheel because the tire was brand new. it ended up that it was the tire and i thought i strange since one of mine did it and the other was butter smooth.
Yeah up and down. It seems to be a bugger more than a nuisance in handling though. But since I have the option, I may transfer this annoying 244 on my 1999 which will do mainly gravel and trail, and install back the Anakee Wild on my 2020, that I use a lot for commuting.

It's a shame that some 244s are bad. It shouldn't be. Maybe it's not the case with mine but since you're not the first to mention that, I don't trust this tire as I should.
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
You could try breaking the bead and spinning it 180 degree's on the rim and airing it back up... and retesting it.
I could. I searched for a mark on the tire like some have that you're supposed to align with the valve? Didn't find one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
One thing to think about is the amount of balancing bead put in the tires. It is ok to have a bit too much. But your balance can be way off id too little beads were place in the tires. Each manufacturer has specific amounts for tire volume.
Looks like you had it. Pretty sure there were too little in there. That must have created an effect opposite to the purpose... Tire weight probably matters too.
 

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Yeah up and down. It seems to be a bugger more than a nuisance in handling though. But since I have the option, I may transfer this annoying 244 on my 1999 which will do mainly gravel and trail, and install back the Anakee Wild on my 2020, that I use a lot for commuting.

It's a shame that some 244s are bad. It shouldn't be. Maybe it's not the case with mine but since you're not the first to mention that, I don't trust this tire as I should.
I have just lived with mine but you are right its annoying for sure. I dont think the tires are bad per-se since the ones i have had that bounced worked well otherwise, i think its more inconstant manufacturing thing. I am to the point it has soured me a little on the brand. We need tires for my lady's NC700X and despite a lot of other NC owners praising the Shinko 705 its not even on the short list....
 
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