[Retrofit]

Just bought a 2001. owner drove it over (no motorcycle lic yet) and parked it in garage. went on vacation and came back to find that the fuel valve was left open and choke on. Tried to start, turned over fine, coughed, died then but nothing but crank crank crank... till battery dead. charged battery, pulled plug, got spark so i think Im OK there. turned it over a few more times the clearly smelled fuel. (sure not a great test, but there was a very strong smell.



so... spark (check) fuel (check) air? openned air box and a quart of gas ran out onto the floor.... assumed result of leaving valve open for two weeks? left open to let everything dry out over night. came back day later and attempted to start again (with airbox open) fired right up but 2 seconds later, gas runs out of the airbox as if it was from a pitcher (right on my shoe) turn motor off. gas stops flowing onto floor. started again, same result. we are not talking drip drip... but a full flow.



Assume CARB? HELP... what do i do next? I can follow directions, but not a great first time try something randomly. ideas, suggestions, HELP new owner, first bike in 30 years, cant go play, not a good way to start back into bike riding!

 

[lizrdbrth]

Just bought a 2001. owner drove it over (no motorcycle lic yet) and parked it in garage. went on vacation and came back to find that the fuel valve was left open and choke on. Tried to start, turned over fine, coughed, died then but nothing but crank crank crank... till battery dead. charged battery, pulled plug, got spark so i think Im OK there. turned it over a few more times the clearly smelled fuel. (sure not a great test, but there was a very strong smell.



so... spark (check) fuel (check) air? openned air box and a quart of gas ran out onto the floor.... assumed result of leaving valve open for two weeks? left open to let everything dry out over night. came back day later and attempted to start again (with airbox open) fired right up but 2 seconds later, gas runs out of the airbox as if it was from a pitcher (right on my shoe) turn motor off. gas stops flowing onto floor. started again, same result. we are not talking drip drip... but a full flow.



Assume CARB? HELP... what do i do next? I can follow directions, but not a great first time try something randomly. ideas, suggestions, HELP new owner, first bike in 30 years, cant go play, not a good way to start back into bike riding!

Your float needle is stuck in the open position. Don't attempt to start it again until you fix it. The cylinder could fill with gas and you'll lock up the motor hydraulically and bend important and expensive stuff.

 

[Retrofit]

Bend important and expensive stuff... Sounds important thanks.

 

[Rohnsman]

This sounds like a fire waiting to happen. Be careful with things that make sparks around gasoline!

 

[qwerty]

If it was my bike, I'd already have the carb in pieces, and I'd be going after it with a can of carb cleaner and an air hose. I'd also change the oil just in case any of that flood ended up in the crankcase. Also, drain the condensation trap on the bottom of the airbox.

 

[Retrofit]

Thank you for the advice.



Odd part was this only happens when running? Tuen it off the flow stops. Almost like a fuel pump (yes I know - none)



fire? Crossed my mind, fuel pouring out on my shoe right next to the battery charger was a concern that made me move quickly.



Being new to bikes (last ride was 30 years ago) clearly rebuilding or cleaning a carb in pieces is something new and not in my skillset. So this is going to be a take it really slow. Just not the place I saw my re intro into bikes starting.



Not happy

 

[lizrdbrth]

Not happy

We'll talk ya down from the cliff.



You might consider putting your location on your profile. In our little "community" of screwballs you might have someone close by who would already be at your house, fixin your carb, drinkin your beer, stealing your lawn flamingos...

 

[Retrofit]

We'll talk ya down from the cliff.



You might consider putting your location on your profile. In our little "community" of screwballs you might have someone close by who would already be at your house, fixin your carb, drinkin your beer, stealing your lawn flamingos...

Just did... Simi Valley Ca.



anyone... please.....

 

[lizrdbrth]

Just did... Simi Valley Ca.



anyone... please.....

You've got mail.

 

[Retrofit]

first week of owning a TW... not exactly what i had planned...

 

[Retrofit]

carb bowl removed, float seems to be set up correctly. how do i remove the needle valve to check or replace?

 

[Retrofit]

If it was my bike, I'd already have the carb in pieces, and I'd be going after it with a can of carb cleaner and an air hose. I'd also change the oil just in case any of that flood ended up in the crankcase. Also, drain the condensation trap on the bottom of the airbox.

good call, looking at the crank case window level, it's up much higher than when i bought it. THANK YOU!

 

[jbfla]

carb bowl removed, float seems to be set up correctly. how do i remove the needle valve to check or replace?

You need to remove the float in order to get to the needle valve.



http://tw200forum.com/index.php?/topic/1025-removing-the-carburetor-float/



Be sure to check the condition of the o-ring on the outside of the valve seat.

Fuel can pass around the outside of the valve seat body if the o-ring is old and flat... even it the needle valve is closing properly



On my 2005 TW the o-ring needed replacing. On your 2001, I would think the same.



jb

 

[Retrofit]

You need to remove the float in order to get to the needle valve.



http://tw200forum.com/index.php?/topic/1025-removing-the-carburetor-float/



Be sure to check the condition of the o-ring on the outside of the valve seat.

Fuel can pass around the outside of the valve seat body if the o-ring is old and flat... even it the needle valve is closing properly



jb

interesting link about carb damage. there were two bowl screws that the heads were stripped off. AND.... one of the posts on the float support posts broken. go figure. post held pin in place when pushing the float up and down.



BUT seems someone has been here before....



thank you so much for the direction, links and pointing me in the correct direction.

 

[jbfla]

As long as that float pin stays in place, you should be OK.



Replace those float bowl screws.

jb

 

[Retrofit]

As long as that float pin stays in place, you should be OK.



Replace those float bowl screws.

jb

YEP did... from the lazy carb clean directions printed it out and carried into store after having to vice grip out two screws. THANKYOUALL!!!!



heading out to remove carb. learning about this and trying to take short cuts is.... lets just say, that i might be better working on the carb on the bench than hanging from the tw. thankyou all again for your support!

 

[jbfla]

YEP did... from the lazy carb clean directions...

Being 10 years old, your carb may need a more thorough cleaning than the Lazy way.



These pics may be of help:



http://tw200forum.com/index.php?/topic/937-tk-carb-photos-and-parts-identification/



jb

 

[Retrofit]

my new logic (with the help of the people on this forum)



facts i somewhat know.



1) the fuel selector was left on for over a week

2) the choke knob was pulled out for over a week

3) the bike started, then died, nothing after that

4) the bike would crank for a long time after this

5) the spark plug was firing

6) removing the airbox lid, a liquid that smelled like gasoline came out in small volume (engine stopped)

7) the oil fill window shows way over fill

8) after recharge battery and let sit over night, it started, but right after start the liquid came back out again (airbox open)

9) turning off engine, liquid stopped



new....

10) while draining the tank, it was apparent the amount of liquid coming out of the airbox was higher volume than the fuel tank can deliver

11) the place where the liquid ran out on the floor is slippery - 48 hours after the event

12) broke float tower

13) something i saw but didnt register till last night, the liquid on the second attempt to start (airbox open) had airbubbles trapped in it.

14) something else that registered last night. the liquid flows 20 seconds or so after engine start.



Things that have bothered me last night while trying to sleep



number 9: if it flows out only when running, why not when stopped but no other things have changed. in a previous post above i even joked about a condition somewhat like a fuel pump



number 11: how can a leak in a carb flow more than the tank can deliver?



number 13: while draining the tank, it tried to duplicate air bubbles... ya i know... ya cant...



this got me thinking, what is the condition that only happens when the motor is running, can flow more than the tank can deliver, and produce a slippery floor AND trap air bubbles.



I think the hint came from QWERTY above "I'd also change the oil just in case any of that flood ended up in the crankcase". while removing the carb last night. There is a very large hose that goes from the crank case to the air box, and the oil level window is over full.



here is my new thought process that i would like someone to kick around.



The leaking carb, managed to get fuel from bowl, to airbox and then into crankcase thru the crankcase vent hose for over a week - maybe the choke open added to this situation. I am thinking that this crankcase vent hose is large enough to transport the volume of liquid the poured out on the floor. And the tiny bubbles, that i first thought it was a condition of the liquied coming out the screen, but would better explained if the crankcase frothing up when started, and would explain the delay from start to leak and why it only poured out when running but not when starting. Also this might explain why my concrete is slippery and stained where the spill happened (as the liquid also contained oil.



THOUGHTS?

 

[uktw125]

I think you are right.

The crankcase was full of petrol and oil, the engine starts and pumps all the excess out the breather into the airbox.

So drain the oil, refill with the correct amount, fix the carb overflow and you will be riding again in no time.

 

[qwerty]

DO NOT START THE BIKE. Gasoline is a terrible lubricant.



1) Change the oil, include draining the oil filter. Start the bike. Let run until oil seeps from the check screw on the back of the head to be sure the cam and rockers are being lubed.

2) Repeat.

3) Repeat.

4) Smell the oil. If it smells like gasoline, repeat steps 1 through 3.



TWs, like most engines, retaqin some oil to keep the oil pump primed and such, even when doing a change. That is why a new engine takes 1.1 litres of oil, and a change only takes 1 liter. Even when you change the oil, you still have 10% cruddy oil. I've seen bikes take 8-10 oil changes to clean out all the gasoline.



I wouldn't bother with expensive motorcycle-specific oil for multiple changes. I'd save a lot of cash by buying cheap discount store-brand auto oil that is not energy conserving or low emissions. No new oils with an API grade of SL or SM. Look for the API grade SF or SG, those will be good for this purpose. I'd use no thicker than 10W-30 weight, 5W-20 if I could find it, because it will flow easier when cold. I'd consider warming the oil to 120-150*F in a warm oven so it will readily flow to the head on start-up. I'd do the changes one after another as quickly as possible to limit the time oil has to slide off parts--so many dry starts would not be good. I would keep the bike in neutral and NOT pull in the clutch to keep the contaminated oil from soaking into the clutch plates. I don't know what gasoline will do to clutch plates, but it seems like a good idea not to find out.



If it was my bike, I'd do at least 6 oil changes, and sniff the last. If no gas smell, I'd leave the cheap oil in and take an easy, light-throttle, low-rpm ride of 20 or 30 minutes, then switch to a motorcycle-specific oil and get on with my life.